Evidence for God from Science

Kurieuo wrote:

Gman wrote:

Swamper wrote:But pro wrestling is fake...

Don't let the secret out... K?

I won't. Don't even know what the secret is to let it out. I'm just puzzled as to why you directed this at me specifically?

I think he meant ok, not 'K.

jenna wrote:I think he meant ok, not 'K.

Yup....

bizzt wrote: Polar Bears have Armies NICE

I also hear they have a wicked hockey team...

So depending on the place we are born or our genetics, we are going to hell or heaven. I'm very lucky, i have been born in Canada and i'm a nice person who believes in Jesus

Lufia wrote:So depending on the place we are born or our genetics, we are going to hell or heaven.

No. Not at all... It's a freedom of choice.

Exactly what i was saying long ago! But yeah then free will comes into this. But predisposition etc play a role. Imagine yes you are lucky to be a nice person and live in Canada. Now imagine you lived somewhere near bad people or disbelievers so maybe you would be like that and then who is to blame? Exactly my point on some different topic but I'm just exhausted on going into details with this here Being born in nice environment and with nice genes increases the chance of being saved I'd say and being unlucky like never hearing about Christ and being "evil by nature" would decrease this I'd say so one needs to do more to have faith - but it's not works based this is another argument... anyway doesn't relate to war any more does it? But could: some people may be naturally more prone to for example want to fight and be agressive whereas others may want to use peace and not fight. What an argument

Gman wrote:

Lufia wrote:So depending on the place we are born or our genetics, we are going to hell or heaven.

No. Not at all... It's a freedom of choice.

I would say being born into a atheistic family in an atheistic world would probably not afford you the "choice" of God. There have been countless numbers of people without the choice. They, as we, are predestined to be judged by God. We by our choices...they by theirs. How God will reconcile their inability to choose Him...I don't know. But I do trust His judgement.
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Good point BW
The thing is being born an atheist decreases the chance of being a believer, and being born into a believer environment increases this.
As an example take some nations in the OT who were there at the time of Israelites. For some reason they were unbelievers and hated God - or just did not obey Him, maybe simply because they never had the chance of knowing the 10 Commandments, or because their ancestors decided to be against God and hence they grew in bad environment.

Consider e.g. Islam people or other religion. Many religions believe "if you don't believe in my god you'll burn in hell". Now if you were born in islam and believe this on what ground should you convert? Just because there is 1 right religion does not mean automatically that everyone should go to it - other religions also have their reasons and can justify why the're the "right" religions.

Leaving this point aside, let's say you're an atheist or strong disbeliever and God grants you to change - e.g. Rich Deem who founded the G&S website! So yes things happen. But if we take some statistics then I'd say those who live in families with strong and correct christian tradition have a greater chance of being saved than those born to the opposites. Exceptions happen; St Paul is a good example of someone who persecuted christians and then became a saint. However, Therese of Lisieux was born into a good family and although she is the only considered as saint, it looks like the entire family were a bunch of good people who liked God and got saved. Now if they decided to have 150 more children it may have happened that they'd all been saved, and if some evil family decided so and taught them to be evil and so they'd be like that.
Now no-one can choose where one is born, and hence cannot choose his own predisposition...
Now again - if JC is the only way to salvation, and someone is a strong believer in a different religion does it mean he cannot be saved?

madscientist wrote: Now again - if JC is the only way to salvation, and someone is a strong believer in a different religion does it mean he cannot be saved?

I believe your answer is here mad...

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... heard.html

Im not sure if I agree with Christianities definition of just ad bellum which comes from St Augustine of Hippo.Although I love his work, and consider him perhaps the single greatest Christian philosopher ever his arguments for war have been manipulated many times over the centuries by the spiritual and temporal alike. Originally Augustine's war was much like the classical Islamic Jihad, with a ban on the destruction of property, the killing of civilians, and the ruining of peoples lives, but nowadays a nation needs only a tissue thin reason to declare a war it conducts as it likes against even the Geneva convention, let alone St Augustine!!

It seems we have devolved back further than just wars to the reasoning of Marcus Tullius Cicero who stated that wars are for the glory of the state,the wealth of the people and the continuing of peace. Given that he lived in the late Roman Republic, when the economy depended on war to keep functioning,this is hardly suprising.And guess what keeps the world economy going nowadays?? no prizes if you answer war. Make the connection.

I believe your answer is here mad...

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... heard.html

Thank you Gman, that article helped me a lot.

Yeah I read this article before... like 2 years ago when I first heard about it. Thing is, our brain is so that it stays satisfied for a while after such an answer, and then new questions start to arise. Read this one and probably all on apologetics section some while ago.
Looks like all who don't know JC don't necessarily have to not be saved, right? But then there is a lot of speculation and what it means if JC is the only way into salvation.

Sure the problem with free will and war is that if God did not allow it then there would not be free will, and evil is restricted to the laws of nature. However, in my opinion if someone is just extremely evil, then if there were no limits he would be infinitely evil and that there is a line beyond which it does not matter how evil someone is, he just is. Whether Stalin or Hitler was more evil - who knows... Hitler killed due to race whereas Stalin killed rather if someone opposed him. Both were evil people but Stalin gave sort of a "choice" - if you praised him by poems etc you were "saved" by him and if you opposed him you were killed. Hitler? Born Jew and you could adore him as much as you liked he'd never listen you. Anyway we all evil until we accept JC as our Savior