"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
When you say Adventists do you meanBavarianWheels wrote:As an Adventist...I bang the 10 Commandments drum A LOT on this forum...and probably other forums if I frequented others...simply because we Adventists differ from the "main stream" Christianity on a few accounts. The main point would be over the Sabbath. Another would be the state of the dead...some differences on end time chronology. But for the most part, I would say we agree on more than what we disagree on.Canuckster1127 wrote:You'll need to explain that to me a little more to be sure I'm understanding you correctly.
I think every word in the Bible is purposefully there for a reason and that as believers we have a responsibility to look at that and seek to understand why God has it there.
Not every word of the Scripture are God's words in the sense that he spoke them. The Bible preserves Satan's words for instance, Demon's words, the words of Job's comforters etc.
I'm assuming though that that is not what you are speaking about.
When I say that some elements of God's words or covenants are temporal, I'm not saying that they are unimportant or that there is not a reason for their preservation. I'm saying that there are some part of those that were for specific individuals or corporate groups, for specific times and that those specific elements no longer carry the weight of an in effect and enforced covenant because either, we are not part of the group participating in that covenant, and/or, that particular covenant has lapsed or has been superceded by a new covenant.
How does this figure into what you are saying?
Blessings,
Bart
Again I would agree on what is quoted above. My point is that to assume or place God's words written in stone as temporal (for one of the 10) is to assume God speaks idle words. I tend to be in the camp that whatever God speaks is Truth when spoken and remains Truth long after. Not only do we have God's words, but also we have God writing these with His own finger. What gets me all up in a tizzy...I admit my manner of writing is on the confrontational side...is the manner in which Christians today uphold ALL the Commandments...except one...and that ONE is always pushed aside because, "it's of the old covenant" or "it was only for the Jews", or "we are no longer under the Law", or "we are freed from slavery to the Law"...and so on. My question always remains, "How can a Christian believe and uphold ANY of the 10 if they are of the old covenant and no longer binding?" If is one that is temporal...then the whole lot of them are temporal. Since it is no longer Truth that we should Remember the Sabbath...then by the same token it is no longer Truth to follow ANY of the 10. Why would God ask any of us (including the "Jews") to follow any of a "temporal" law? Can what God asks be good only at one point in time? If God actually came down and told you or me to go out and kill someone...would that be considered against His Law? Why should we criticize how the Law Giver hands out punishment for law breaking or what He uses as a tool to hand that punishment out? Does God go against His own Law when at the end of all things it is He that "kills" those against Him?
So it is in this sense that I say God's only written word is not temporal, but universal and everlasting. Isaiah 66:22-23 mentions that even at the end...the Sabbath endures. Why would it?
God firstly places the Sabbath as special at creation by the written account in Genesis prior to any Jew or covenant. God rested on the 7th day and made it holy...for a time? I say not for a time, but for all time. Doesn't it seem ironic God would "rest"? While the word can mean to cease...it still begs the question of why the day in which this occurred is made holy? It is firstly a remembrance that God is Creator...and later a remembrance that God is the Liberator.
How does this fit in with the topic? We all know Jews, to this day, keep the Sabbath "holy" as is their custom handed down through generation. I don't uphold their manner of keeping it with all the rules...but rather would follow Christ's example of keeping the Sabbath. Healing (as best we can. This is sometimes only by bringing Christ into other's lives...and not an immediate physical healing), serving others, being a good neighbor, loving one another...and so on. None of God's Law is a burden to those that love Him, but become a way of life out of love for Him. They are to be written on our heart. Something written on the heart means it is followed through gratitude and not fears.
Today there is no Jew or Gentile. As mentioned, God didn't choose the "Jews", but chose a people to be set apart...those that follow His word.
What is sin?NIV - 1 John 3:9 wrote: No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
So the Law points to what sin is.NIV — Romans 3:20 wrote: Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
So the law, if followed to the letter, showed that those that followed the law perfectly were righteous and deserving of life everlasting (impossible to any human after Adam)…but a righteousness APART from law was made known…that being though faith (in the old covenant in the promise and in the new covenant a promise fulfilled) in Christ.NIV — Romans 3:21 wrote: But now a righteousness from God, apart from law,
There is no boasting because there is no one that can claim he has kept the law perfectly and is righteous. (only Christ). So man is justified APART from that law…it only condemns him showing his sin. That righteousness is through faith. Faith afforded to Jews and Gentiles alike. So is the law then nullified? No. We uphold the law as it still points to Christ and that which is not sin.NIV — Romans 3:27-Romans 4:3 wrote: Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
The old covenant is no different from the new in that both are based on faith and not on law. The law NEVER was put forth as a means to salvation…but as a finger pointing at our sin and thus to that which was of God. If there were no law, there would be no sin. (Romans 4:15)
Being no longer under law means simply that the law has no power to condemn us since we are dead already to that law. As a matter of law, we have paid the price the law (God) requires of a sinner through Christ.
Obedience to what? The law. To follow the law is neither sinful nor contrary to a righteous life, but it points to righteousness and what obedience to God is. (See also Romans 7:4-7)NIV — Romans 6:14-18 wrote: For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
So…I've drawn out this long thing for the simple notion that what God utters/writes is not temporal, but everlasting.
I hope this helps explain my position...
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?Is there another kind?JCSx2 wrote:When you say Adventists do you mean?
God did not choose the Jews. He said at the fall that someone was coming to crush satans (the snake) head. Then a few chapters later God chooses a particular man Abraham. God says he will make him into a important people and from him all the nations be blessed. they will be blessed because the being to crush Satan is to come for the sake of all men.johnt wrote:This question has bothered me for sometime now. Out of all of mankind why the Jews? They were a very small population on all accounts and had not built great civilizations like the Egyptians, Chinese, Myans. Norse Men and etc.. They were lead out of Egypt but at the time Egypt controlled the land up through Syria. They lived in Egypt by being invited by Joseph( as it is said) as there was a great famine going on ( as guests), then after being enslaved (why and according to who?) and then after being guided out they later returned and prospered during the first centuries A.D. while under Roman rule which by the way had great influence over Egypt at the time. I just don't get it. As far as giving a name for the pharo of the time prior to and during the exodus they do not name him. As powerful a person as a pharo was why didn't they record his name? Why didn't the Egytians record the events and their suffering. Could they have been just disgruntiled workers that were not able to attain higher authority in a land that was not theirs to begin with and so decided to hand down their dissatisfaction with authority to future generations with stories? Had G-d known this was going to happen to them why did He allow a famine to strike the land for them to move or was it just a lesson when they went to Egypt in the first place? Why didn't they make the Egyptians leave? Could they have been in the "promised Land" all along but just under Egyptian rule? Soloman and David were great kings and their empires as descibed should have lasted for sometime but didn't. Being "the Chosen People" with all the help from G-d it sure doesn't add up.
Finally, a common sense explanation of the reason HE chose me-thank you!FFC wrote:I think God chose the people He knew were the most prone to screw up so that He would get the glory...and not the people He chose.
um, Hebrew means of the Jewish peoplecespinoza wrote:The Jews are not God's chosen people.. Those who believe in Christ are, those who have faith. Also, Abraham is a Hebrew, the bible says so.
You are right, the Jews aren't God's chosen ones. The Israelites are. They are Abraham's descendants.cespinoza wrote:The Jews are not God's chosen people.. Those who believe in Christ are, those who have faith. Also, Abraham is a Hebrew, the bible says so.
Both of you are dead wrong:jenna wrote:You are right, the Jews aren't God's chosen ones. The Israelites are. They are Abraham's descendants.cespinoza wrote:The Jews are not God's chosen people.. Those who believe in Christ are, those who have faith. Also, Abraham is a Hebrew, the bible says so.
It's only your opinion that we are wrong. Maybe you could go Hebrew=Jew=Israelite. Again, the Jews are only one tribe out of all the Israelites. All Israelites, which does include the Jews, are God's chosen ones. But this does not mean that only Jews were chosen.Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Both of you are dead wrong:jenna wrote:You are right, the Jews aren't God's chosen ones. The Israelites are. They are Abraham's descendants.cespinoza wrote:The Jews are not God's chosen people.. Those who believe in Christ are, those who have faith. Also, Abraham is a Hebrew, the bible says so.
Cespinoza is confused between chosen people and righteousness.
Jenna hasn't yet understood that Hebrew = Israelite = Jew.
Study your Bible.
No. You are wrong, and most definately so. If you are so wrong in this most fundamental of biblical information, your whole understanding of God's word must be flawed.jenna wrote:It's only your opinion that we are wrong.