Evidence for God from Science

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

robyn hill wrote:I am new to this site as well and I honesly wasn't aware we weren't supposed to discuss issues with atheists.

You misread me. I said,

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Another thing, Psalm 14:1 tells us what an atheist is, so why do some of you insist on discussing with them?

Discuss with an atheist until you're blue in the face but know this: you will not advance the cause of Christ one millimeter; you may even be setting it back! Atheism is a disrespect of God (Ps 36:1-2) and a hatred of God (Jer 5:12). This hatred of God by the atheist is confirmed in 1Jn 2:22-23.

Another thing: an atheist who is «searching» ceases to be an atheist and becomes an agnostic. Such a cross-over atheist may not even be aware of his new status but his tone will change, as per Lk 6:45, The good man brings up the good stored in his heart...(see also Mt 12:34-35.) His tone will change because hatred has been replaced by questioning.

Have a blessed day.




Fürstentum Liechtenstein,

thanks for clarifying, I understand what you are saying.

robyn hill wrote:Atheism is a disrespect of God (Ps 36:1-2) and a hatred of God (Jer 5:12). This hatred of God by the atheist is confirmed in 1Jn 2:22-23.

Hi robyn,

Just an fyi... Not that I'm trying to side with the atheist, but atheism doesn't acknowledge any God. So we really can't say that they hate or disrespect God if they really don't believe in Him. Just trying to be fair...

I would say, Biblically speaking, it states that it would be foolish to say that there is no God.. Psalm 53:1

Just my two cents..

Gman wrote: Not that I'm trying to side with the atheist, but atheism doesn't acknowledge any God. So we really can't say that they hate or disrespect God if they really don't believe in Him.

Very strictly speaking, you are correct, Gman; and my dictionary confirms that atheism is nothing more than the doctrine of the non-existence of God or gods. In the real world, however, atheism is usually accompanied by hatred of God and derision of all other gods. That was my experience when, as an atheist, I met weekly with other atheists to listen to taped lectures by our ...guru. (!)

Also, if you judge by the numerous atheists that show up here only to be banned later on for misconduct, they do very much hate God.

So, okay...you win a technical victory, Gman. I claim a moral victory!

Gman wrote: Just trying to be fair...

You're way too fair with the enemy, Gman!

FL

Gman,
this quote, below, was from Fürstentum Liechtenstein, not me, I was the one who was trying to figure it out. In my stuff above, I was actually questioning rigidness towards atheists on this site. so I am actually in agreement with you. I think I accidently misquoted so it looked like my quote. I am not very clever with the quote mechanism on here....

quote from Fürstentum Liechtenstein:
Discuss with an atheist until you're blue in the face but know this: you will not advance the cause of Christ one millimeter; you may even be setting it back! Atheism is a disrespect of God (Ps 36:1-2) and a hatred of God (Jer 5:12). This hatred of God by the atheist is confirmed in 1Jn 2:22-23.

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Very strictly speaking, you are correct, Gman; and my dictionary confirms that atheism is nothing more than the doctrine of the non-existence of God or gods. In the real world, however, atheism is usually accompanied by hatred of God and derision of all other gods. That was my experience when, as an atheist, I met weekly with other atheists to listen to taped lectures by our ...guru. (!)

Also, if you judge by the numerous atheists that show up here only to be banned later on for misconduct, they do very much hate God.

Yes, I get what you mean... Although I wonder if some of this hatred is directed to what atheists feel is immoral or immorality by the Christians. As an example environmental issues... Now Christians are commanded by God to be stewards of the earth, not to litter, protect God's creation, etc... Technically we should be the leaders of it... However, when an atheists catches a Christian poo pooing environmental concerns, they will USE that as an argument against Christianity and Christians themselves...Claiming moral victory... Other items are freedom of choice, etc... So basically what we have here is one group proclaiming their morality over another groups morality. So then God, if caught up into this argument (being an anti-environmentalist) one one side, then ultimately He is poo pooed too.

Here is my belief about this, although I can't say this about all atheists. If they ever really did a deep search of their heart and the scriptures (as I did) they would flock to God in a second. I think a lot of this could be ignorance, but then again sometimes it is too late, or their mind has been made up and nothing will change that 1 Timothy 4:2. Again, God is ultimately the judge of this... Not me..

I will say this though.. Before I turned to God, I had a lot of confusion.. Now I can't say that I can't get that way sometimes, but my contentment is solid.. God for me is everything pure, all knowing, sacred, and everything loving... So when someone attacks my faith, they are attacking to what I think is pure, sacred and loving. And if anyone took the time to understand sanctification, I believe they would be blown away... This is not man made and it is crystal clear to me...

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:So, okay...you win a technical victory, Gman. I claim a moral victory!

Ha! Ok, well maybe you got me there...

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:You're way too fair with the enemy, Gman!

FL

Well, just trying to play the devils advocate I suppose..

robyn hill wrote:Gman,
this quote, below, was from Fürstentum Liechtenstein, not me, I was the one who was trying to figure it out. In my stuff above, I was actually questioning rigidness towards atheists on this site. so I am actually in agreement with you. I think I accidently misquoted so it looked like my quote. I am not very clever with the quote mechanism on here....

quote from Fürstentum Liechtenstein:
Discuss with an atheist until you're blue in the face but know this: you will not advance the cause of Christ one millimeter; you may even be setting it back! Atheism is a disrespect of God (Ps 36:1-2) and a hatred of God (Jer 5:12). This hatred of God by the atheist is confirmed in 1Jn 2:22-23.

Ok got ya... As far as the rigidness, there is a point where we have to draw a line if the argument doesn't seem to be going anywhere and we are just arguing for arguments sake...

I reread the guidelines and see where there were some changes in what is acceptable. I totally get it, otherwise we would probably all spend hours chasing our tails on here when some are just throwing out insults. Thanks Gman and Fürstentum Liechtenstein.

Fürstentum Liechtenstein, man your name is long! I have to copy and paste it when I add it to post replies, no chance of me spelling it right either. Risking sounding ignorant, What does it mean?

Gman wrote: I wonder if some of this hatred [of God] is directed to what atheists feel is immoral or immorality by the Christians. As an example environmental issues...

Funny you would mention that. I was having a talk with an unbelieving woman last week who praised atheists' high moral standing, goodness and environmental concern versus many Christians' apparent lack of all of the above. I'm slowly getting through to her but it isn't easy, as anyone who has been baptized can claim to be Christian...then swear like a trooper, hate the poor and infirm and empty their car ashtray onto the street.

robyn hill wrote:Fürstentum Liechtenstein, man your name is long! I have to copy and paste it when I add it to post replies, no chance of me spelling it right either. Risking sounding ignorant, What does it mean?

«Fürstentum Liechtenstein» is Low German for Principality of Liechtenstein, a country in Europe. If you want to know more, go to the General Chit Chat page and click on the What's In A Name? thread. While there, tell us what «robyn hill» means...are you a hill robber? do you live on a hill where robbing is common? I'm confused...

FL

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Funny you would mention that. I was having a talk with an unbelieving woman last week who praised atheists' high moral standing, goodness and environmental concern versus many Christians' apparent lack of all of the above. I'm slowly getting through to her but it isn't easy, as anyone who has been baptized can claim to be Christian...then swear like a trooper, hate the poor and infirm and empty their car ashtray onto the street.

Yep, people can use that as ammunition against Christianity.. Unfortunately those type of actions are condemned in the Bible if the atheists would take the time to read it....

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:«Fürstentum Liechtenstein» is Low German for Principality of Liechtenstein, a country in Europe. If you want to know more, go to the General Chit Chat page and click on the What's In A Name? thread. While there, tell us what «robyn hill» means...are you a hill robber? do you live on a hill where robbing is common? I'm confused...

FL

Sorry, whenever I hear that name I always think of Sir Ulrich von Liechtenstein of Gelderland...(From the movie knight's tale).

While there, tell us what «robyn hill» means...are you a hill robber? do you live on a hill where robbing is common? I'm confused...



It's actually my name! I guess I should've chosen a post name. Should I have a post name? Remember, I am new at this.

Hi all
The original poster of this thread rmil65, back again under a new name, as some of you will have guessed, the moderator banned me. One thing I have learned and will put into practice if I am allowed to remain on this forum, is that ridicule and sarcasm, no matter how tempting, get in the way of a good debate, and I have been as guilty of that as some other posters (you know who you are!! ) replying to me. I just returned to inform those of you who expressed concern at not being allowed to discuss with atheists, that this particular one was indeed censored. Also I'm delighted my post has sparked off a lively debate about the definition of an atheist. I was beginning to respect Robyn Hill's posts - in the interests of fairness I have added a Strobel (The Case for Christ) to my wish list on Amazon, and if I'm allowed to stay, will tell you what I think of it in a few weeks, and you can tell me what you thought of The God Delusion.

nah, you could chose your own name....many of use don't simply for various and sundry reasons....internet security, just plain fun, ...

I have no reason to lie to you. I was unable to access the forum from my home computer, instead a message came up saying I am permanently banned. Check with the moderator if you don't believe me. I am now having to use my work computer which has a different IP address. I have just discovered that I can still access my original login from this machine though, so I'll continue with it for now.

banned wrote:Hi all
The original poster of this thread rmil65, back again under a new name, as some of you will have guessed, the moderator banned me. One thing I have learned and will put into practice if I am allowed to remain on this forum, is that ridicule and sarcasm, no matter how tempting, get in the way of a good debate, and I have been as guilty of that as some other posters (you know who you are!! ) replying to me. I just returned to inform those of you who expressed concern at not being allowed to discuss with atheists, that this particular one was indeed censored. Also I'm delighted my post has sparked off a lively debate about the definition of an atheist. I was beginning to respect Robyn Hill's posts - in the interests of fairness I have added a Strobel (The Case for Christ) to my wish list on Amazon, and if I'm allowed to stay, will tell you what I think of it in a few weeks, and you can tell me what you thought of The God Delusion.

Please login under your original account and read your private messages. This is not a norm, but I am happy to give one more chance.

This board serves a particular audience and we will police it accordingly. We are not like other boards on the Internet. We consider this board a church and it is the reason why many Christians here love it. We want to keep it that way. You are coming to our virtual Christian church. We are quite clear about who our intended audience is in the board purpose. This along with our discussion guidelines are something each registrant must agree to when signing up. Your banning was a result of your choice to ignore them, not one of censorship. There are plenty of other boards out there dedicated to Atheist vs Christian debates. This board is not one of them.

So if you are decided in your beliefs against Christianity, and your intention is to just debate against our beliefs, then please respect our Christian community here and look elsewhere.

God bless.
Kurieuo

banned wrote:Hi all
The original poster of this thread rmil65, back again under a new name, as some of you will have guessed, the moderator banned me. One thing I have learned and will put into practice if I am allowed to remain on this forum, is that ridicule and sarcasm, no matter how tempting, get in the way of a good debate, and I have been as guilty of that as some other posters (you know who you are!! ) replying to me. I just returned to inform those of you who expressed concern at not being allowed to discuss with atheists, that this particular one was indeed censored. Also I'm delighted my post has sparked off a lively debate about the definition of an atheist. I was beginning to respect Robyn Hill's posts - in the interests of fairness I have added a Strobel (The Case for Christ) to my wish list on Amazon, and if I'm allowed to stay, will tell you what I think of it in a few weeks, and you can tell me what you thought of The God Delusion.

rmil65,

There are many non-christian members of this site and yes, some of them are even atheists or agnostics. They remain members in good standing because they have shown through the years that they can engage in conversation, although extremely heated at times, but with respect and humility; traits you have shown to possess none. That is the reason I banned you (nice new member name by the way, very prophetic of you ).

P.S. I will let things be for now and see how it goes. Just a reminder that the board purpose makes it very clear that this site is not open for the public but for Christians and sincere seekers. It is in the moderators' sole discretion to determine who does not fit these criteria.

Byblos,
Moderator.