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[munster]

You ask me 'so what' if you didn't mention you were evangelizing, as I said a bit of honesty would be appreciated, and I also don't buy into that to 'Evangelize' is not to convert, it's just a way of glossing over it, by referring to a dictionary term.

So you want to teach and tell me, what i should do , and what not ?

No I'll leave the preaching to you, you seem fond of it, I was merely giving you advice, you are welcome back on to Athesit.ie at any point, carrying God's message.

[cslewislover]

Then what is he doing there in Brazil? preaching to people who have already been converted? I sincerely doubt it.

Lol. I forgot where he's at; it didn't matter to me.

I have studied the Bible as part of my curriculm in University in relation to history. It is just one contradiction after another, and has various signs of being tampered with over the years. The New Testament was written anonymously about 40-50 years after Jesus walked the earth (I don't Jesus existed, but not what you claim him to be).

I have a masters in history, and I can honestly say that not all historians are unbiased. Coming from a science background I was shocked, in fact, when I began my studies in history, at how biased historians can be. However, all the more reason to look at all sides. The bible is one of the most remarkable documents, period, for its verifiability and all that. Maybe, if you're willing, I could provide a link that goes through some of this information, but which isn't too long. I hate getting led to links that are too long.

And how do you know that the Bible is right? why not read the Koran or follow Hinduism or Buddhism. People are mainly Chrisitan by chance not by choice.

I was not raised a Christian. There are plenty of ways to compare the writings and history of the different religions, to see which, if any, seem "true." If you ever read any stories of how Muslims become Christians, you could see how they searched the Koran, then the bible, and made the decision. I'm sure there are other similar testimonies coming from people of other religions, I just haven't read those.

[munster]

So typical. No my friend, people are free to believe what they want. While many Christians are so by birth, the majority continue to be by choice. You know what else is by choice, ignorance.

This is a good time to remind you to read the board purpose and decide whether or not this place is for you.

So forcing religion on a child from their birth, telling them if they do not believe in God they will go to hell, is choice! Don't kid yourself with that ignorance.

Fair enough this board is probably not for me in a strict sense, but it was originally a response to Angelo the 'evengelist' who decided to spread the good news on Atheist.ie

Thank You

[Byblos]

Tell me, where is the city of Babylon today? (answer: it doesn't exist).

its exactly located, where Saddam Hussein built his palast, as shown in the homepage. Doesnt contradict it Jesaia 13 ?

No it does not. One, its name was changed to Babylonia, and two it is now split by the Euphrates. Babylon as it was no longer exists.

Why would you say that's a contradiction? Nebu got his pay for invading Tyre from Egypt.

interesting. Can you show me a source, to know more about that ?

Of course I can, the very same prophecy, particularly this verse:

I have given him the land of Egypt as his compensation for attacking Tyre21, because they did it for me, declares the sovereign Lord.

[Byblos]

So typical. No my friend, people are free to believe what they want. While many Christians are so by birth, the majority continue to be by choice. You know what else is by choice, ignorance.

This is a good time to remind you to read the board purpose and decide whether or not this place is for you.

So forcing religion on a child from their birth, telling them if they do not believe in God they will go to hell, is choice! Don't kid yourself with that ignorance.

Fair enough this board is probably not for me in a strict sense, but it was originally a response to Angelo the 'evengelist' who decided to spread the good news on Atheist.ie

Thank You

Then how do you explain adults who still believe out of conviction? Ignorance is not lack of facts. It is the deliberate, conscious decision to ignore them.

[munster]

Byblos Said:

Then how do you explain adults who still believe out of conviction? Ignorance is not lack of facts. It is the deliberate, conscious decision to ignore them.

The vast majority of adults were exposed to religion at a very young age, so it is entrenched in their minds, I have talked to many of my christian friends and a lot of them claim that it is 'fear' that makes them believe. children should not be exposed to religion at a such a young age, and should be able to decide for 'themselves' at a later age (16-18) what path they should take. That would be true 'conviction' of faith.

It is clear from your perspective that you believe that I am ignoring the facts that point to God's existence, and it is clear from my stance that you ignore the facts that the Bible is one contradiction after another, was written anonymously 40-50 years after Jesus' time and has been doctored with on numerous times, and chopped and changed to suit christianity.

[cslewislover]

Byblos Said:

Then how do you explain adults who still believe out of conviction? Ignorance is not lack of facts. It is the deliberate, conscious decision to ignore them.

The vast majority of adults were exposed to religion at a very young age, so it is entrenched in their minds, I have talked to many of my christian friends and a lot of them claim that it is 'fear' that makes them believe. children should not be exposed to religion at a such a young age, and should be able to decide for 'themselves' at a later age (16-18) what path they should take. That would be true 'conviction' of faith.

It is clear from your perspective that you believe that I am ignoring the facts that point to God's existence, and it is clear from my stance that you ignore the facts that the Bible is one contradiction after another, was written anonymously 40-50 years after Jesus' time and has been doctored with on numerous times, and chopped and changed to suit christianity.

I don't know what kind of fear the Christians had that you spoke with, but there is healthy fear. I'm afraid to jump off of a building, or to go into the ocean during a storm. Sometimes fear is good.

The second thing you said is simply false (the way you presented the years is unclear, and no, the NT hasn't been altered or doctored). You need to look into some other sources. And I'm going to go try to find some right now.

OK. Here's one so far, but it's not that short. 101 Cleared-Up "Contradictions of the Bible" http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm

Ok. Here's another. I imagine these may be useful to any here that want some good apologetics articles. Isn't the Bible full of Errors? http://www.bethinking.org.uk/bible-jesu ... errors.htm

The Historicity of the New Testament http://www.bethinking.org.uk/bible-jesu ... tament.htm

[munster]

cslewislover Said:

OK. Here's one so far, but it's not that short. 101 Cleared-Up "Contradictions of the Bible" http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm

Ok. Here's another. I imagine these may be useful to any here that want some good apologetics articles. Isn't the Bible full of Errors? http://www.bethinking.org.uk/bible-jesu ... errors.htm [/color]

It is useless you posting me links to these sites, or me to post you to works of the falsehood of the Bible (of which they are also plenty).

We are either going to read them and say they are false, or just ignore them, I don't mean to sound smug but I have already discussed this with Angelo on the linking to sites. It's a useless operation and I admit I have linjed sites in the past but it never works.

[cslewislover]

cslewislover Said:

OK. Here's one so far, but it's not that short. 101 Cleared-Up "Contradictions of the Bible" http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm

Ok. Here's another. I imagine these may be useful to any here that want some good apologetics articles. Isn't the Bible full of Errors? http://www.bethinking.org.uk/bible-jesu ... errors.htm [/color]

It is useless you posting me links to these sites, or me to post you to works of the falsehood of the Bible (of which they are also plenty).

We are either going to read them and say they are false, or just ignore them, I don't mean to sound smug but I have already discussed this with Angelo on the linking to sites. It's a useless operation and I admit I have linjed sites in the past but it never works.

There are ways to show and discern the veracity of something. Your response, to me, shows that you simply do not want to look. I have looked at a lot works that try and discredit Christianity. How many have you actually read and considered seriously? I can provide links or references to nonChristian works that show the quality of the information in the NT, it'll just take me longer. In any case, I actually didn't think you'd look. The links are more for the benefit of other readers here. By the way, any time you want to sit down and have a cup of coffee and share and discuss things, let me know.

[Gman]

The vast majority of adults were exposed to religion at a very young age, so it is entrenched in their minds, I have talked to many of my christian friends and a lot of them claim that it is 'fear' that makes them believe. children should not be exposed to religion at a such a young age, and should be able to decide for 'themselves' at a later age (16-18) what path they should take. That would be true 'conviction' of faith.

So you think Christians are brainwashed into believing in God out of fear? How so? You do not think that children can make choices at an early age? Also what do you mean by religion? Are you an atheist?

[munster]

There are ways to show and discern the veracity of something. Your response, to me, shows that you simply do not want to look. I have looked at a lot works that try and discredit Christianity. How many have you actually read and considered seriously? I can provide links or references to nonChristian works that show the quality of the information in the NT, it'll just take me longer. In any case, I actually didn't think you'd look. The links are more for the benefit of other readers here. By the way, any time you want to sit down and have a cup of coffee and share and discuss things, let me know.

I am not going to post links to sites that deny the bible, the list will be as long as my arm and as I said a persons mind is made up before visiting site, but as a matter of interest have you read 'Atheist Manifesto : The Case Against Christianity, Judaism, and Islam' ?

[cslewislover]

There are ways to show and discern the veracity of something. Your response, to me, shows that you simply do not want to look. I have looked at a lot works that try and discredit Christianity. How many have you actually read and considered seriously? I can provide links or references to nonChristian works that show the quality of the information in the NT, it'll just take me longer. In any case, I actually didn't think you'd look. The links are more for the benefit of other readers here. By the way, any time you want to sit down and have a cup of coffee and share and discuss things, let me know.

I am not going to post links to sites that deny the bible, the list will be as long as my arm and as I said a persons mind is made up before visiting site, but as a matter of interest have you read 'Atheist Manifesto : The Case Against Christianity, Judaism, and Islam' ?

I haven't read that. But if I do (is it long?), will you read something I recommend?

[munster]

The vast majority of adults were exposed to religion at a very young age, so it is entrenched in their minds, I have talked to many of my christian friends and a lot of them claim that it is 'fear' that makes them believe. children should not be exposed to religion at a such a young age, and should be able to decide for 'themselves' at a later age (16-18) what path they should take. That would be true 'conviction' of faith.

So you think Christians are brainwashed into believing in God out of fear? How so? You do not think that children can make choices at an early age? Also what do you mean by religion? Are you an atheist?

Yes I do think they are brainwashed out of fear ie Heaven and Hell
The parents make the choice for them by forcing their religion upon them, so when it comes to children the vast majority have no choice in their religion. When do you ever hear a parent say 'what religion do you want to try out today, muslim, catholic, Hindu... no thought not
By religion I mean 'A state of life bound by monastic vows; the condition of one who is a member of a religious order'.
Yes I would consider myself one, and I thought it would have been obvious at this stage.

[munster]

There are ways to show and discern the veracity of something. Your response, to me, shows that you simply do not want to look. I have looked at a lot works that try and discredit Christianity. How many have you actually read and considered seriously? I can provide links or references to nonChristian works that show the quality of the information in the NT, it'll just take me longer. In any case, I actually didn't think you'd look. The links are more for the benefit of other readers here. By the way, any time you want to sit down and have a cup of coffee and share and discuss things, let me know.

I am not going to post links to sites that deny the bible, the list will be as long as my arm and as I said a persons mind is made up before visiting site, but as a matter of interest have you read 'Atheist Manifesto : The Case Against Christianity, Judaism, and Islam' ?

I haven't read that. But if I do (is it long?), will you read something I recommend?

its not that long can't remember exact page count as I don't have it to hand, its not a scientific attack on the Bible but it attacks the fallacy (my opinion) of religion.

I could also recommend 'God is Not Great' by Christopher Hitchens

Yes I would gladly read something you reccomend, but we both know that you or I will hardly be persuaded to change by any work.

[jlay]

I can sum up Hitchens for you.

Barrack Obama does not exist. I do not agree with his policies. I don't like the way he is running the country. Therefore he does not exist.

Hitchens junk all boils down to, "god doesn't exist because he doesn't agree with me."