can you clarify this.
Are you saying that sin = a hardened heart and therefore "everyones heart is hard?
When Christ says (to paraphrase) "1/3 will believe, 1/3 will think about it, and 1/3 will not listen at all", and " "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these".Where does the hardened heart go?
Is there a distinction between a "sinful heart" and a "hardened heart" or are they one in the same in your opinion?
B. W. wrote:knowing that there will be some people who will not freely respond to his call but rather reject it, then he can with faultless right make that heart harder and turn them into a Pharaoh to use as howsoever He so-ever wills.
"make that heart harder" - what is the inferance? Are you suggesting that God -
1. makes their heart harder by direct involvement, or
2. allows them to follow their own desires?
can you clarify this.
Are you saying that sin = a hardened heart and therefore "everyones heart is hard?
When Christ says (to paraphrase) "1/3 will believe, 1/3 will think about it, and 1/3 will not listen at all", and " "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these".Where does the hardened heart go?
Is there a distinction between a "sinful heart" and a "hardened heart" or are they one in the same in your opinion?
B. W. wrote:knowing that there will be some people who will not freely respond to his call but rather reject it, then he can with faultless right make that heart harder and turn them into a Pharaoh to use as howsoever He so-ever wills.
"make that heart harder" - what is the inferance? Are you suggesting that God -
1. makes their heart harder by direct involvement, or
2. allows them to follow their own desires?
Here is what I mean by everyone's heart is already hard as evidenced by the condition of sin:
Next what I am inferring about God making a heart harder is as follows:
1. God makes their heart harder by direct involvement as he foreknows who will respond to his Calling before any were ever born. If God did not call to humanity (Evidence hint - In the Garden of Eden and by sending His Word John 1:1) none could be saved. God's call is his own initiative and work and this proves God is just and shows no impartiality. Since he knows all and is all knowing, he knows how each will respond to his call. From this, those he knew who never will harken, he can most definitely make their heart harder so that he can do his will as in the case of Pharaoh.
2. God allows people to follow their own desires as well… God is capable of doing even more than both of these as this reveals his all powerful nature.. Justice, Grace, etc…
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
The verses you show are of affliction, they have no bearing on how you are suggesting God directly hardens ones heart. I do believe God does harden hearts, but only by letting man fall to their desires and not as you are suggesting, directly inflicting them to continue to commit sin by not letting them have the choice to choose.Since sin is abhorent to God why would he then make someone continue to sin by forceibly hardening their heart to do so?
For example - Romans 1:24, Genesis 20:6 gives us clues into why God does this. All of Romans Chapter 9 (which one could use to promote your idea) also talks of this, however where God says in Romans 9:18, it needs to be read with its relaited verse in Proverbs 28:14. Romans Chapter 9 speaks of Gods sovereignty and of Unbelief.
The thematic context is that God has the right to either assist a person who is searching for a pure intention -as in Abimelich, or not and let them go to their own desires - as in the Pharaoh, either way the Glory of God is seen.
You said " Here is what I mean by everyone's heart is already hard as evidenced by the condition of sin "
If i am reading you correctly you are saying that sin makes a mans heart hard? I don't wish to come across as argumentative but i do not see how this can be. I look at it the other way around - the hardened heart brings on sin.It is a sublte differance but still a differance.
When one is tempted, they choose which way to go, then they act on that choice. For example Eve was given the choice to reject the snakes view or act on it. Eve would then have to bring in Gods view and what the snake said; come to a conclusion on what she wished to do and then do it. In the process of making the decision, it is here that the heart is hardened. Eve could have chosen to harden her heart to the snakes proposition or to Gods' directive. She chose to harden her heart to Gods directive and follow the snakes advice, as such she commited the sin.
As with the Pharaoh he also had a choice he would either listen to Moses and Aaron or reject them. God knowing that the Pharaoh would reject them for many reasons - Ramses was thought as a god. The slaves where a cheap workforce etc. So God let him fall to his own desire. If you are then suggesting that God directly took away the Pharaoh's choice to even consider the options, then how is the Pharoah at falt? and again i would ask why would God let him have no avenue to even consider accepting?With no choice he is robotic in his decision.
Matthew 15:17-19, "Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? 18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander..."
Does the Bible define these things mentioned above as sin?
So does not sin make one's heart - severe, obstinate, difficult, fierce, intense, vehement, stubborn, stiff of neck, and resistant as these things define what is meant by Hard Heart...
Romans 2:5 states it is 'who' makes their heart severe, obstinate, difficult, fierce, intense, vehement, stubborn, stiff of neck, and resistant? How does the heart become severe, obstinate, difficult, fierce, intense, vehement, stubborn, stiff of neck, and resistant if not for the sin that worketh within the heart?
The issue is not that God can harden someone's heart because a person's heart is sinful (just as all humankind's heart is). It just that God knows all things about each person before we ever were born and can deal with as He so wills.
Remember in biblical terms - the Heart is the well spring of life where all the issues of life come from - the control room of the soul for another analogy. Do we have a sin nature? It is that — which makes all our hearts hard - severe, obstinate, difficult, fierce, intense, vehement, stubborn, stiff of neck, and resistant to the Lord - the sin nature (note Ephesians 2:3, 4, 5).
As stated before - The issue is not that God can harden someone's heart because a person's heart is already sinful (just as all humankind's heart is). It just that God knows all things about each person before we ever were born and He can deal with each of us as He so-ever wills.
In fact as Job 34:21, 22, 23 - states, with His kind of knowledge God has no need to consider anyone further for judgment, even before we are born. Yet, His great justice that works by His love issues forth His Call to humanity and from that alone He knows the final result of His own Call on us all. The Lord chose to Call and that Call demands an exchange. If one refuses — then what is in already in the heart is made harder still.
Job 34:11 has a deeper meaning than most realize…
Note also Romans 1:24, 28 and Jeremiah 17:10
There is absolutely No injustice with God...
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
B. W. wrote:So does not sin make one's heart - severe, obstinate, difficult, fierce, intense, vehement, stubborn, stiff of neck, and resistant as these things define what is meant by Hard Heart...
Reading this and the rest of your post i believe that in reality our understanding of how God hardens a mans heart is the same, therefore in actuality it was just semantics.
To finalise my discussion on this, let me say that i do feel however that we differ in how a hardened heart comes into play. The study of a "sinful heart, the "hardened heart" and how they inter-relaite and are used by God, man and the devil is a deep and consuming study which would involve much discussion and take insurmountable posts.Although the rewards are great; it would still be intense.
For myself their are 3 natures. 1. of God, 2. of man 3. of devil. They stand alone, yet are entwined in such multi facted ways that to decipher the connections is and can be perplexing.In this way there are 3 injunctions that cause this influence.
