Gay Marriage Video(s)

[Gabrielman]

Why is the government even involved in marriage in the first place?

Maybe because one needn't be affiliated with a church to get married?
Maybe because marriage is mainly a secular institution?
Maybe because church's interest in marriage is quite recent (4-500 yrs) and they got into it because at that time most of the persons that were literate were clergy, so the church kept the records.
What gives religions the idea they "own" marriage?

The idea of marriage goes back farther in the faith than that, try over 1000 years. We branch off from the jews, who believed in the marriage of one man and one woman. 400-500 years? Wrong. Marriage is secular institution? Since when? What makes us think we own marriage? If we didn't come up with it then it is very likely it would not exist. Look at culteurs past, they were very premiscus and many had sexual relations outside of marriage. The Jews were different in that respect. We are Jews techinaclly. Therefore we had it first, it was ours to begin with, our inventioin, our tradtion.
God bless!

[ageofknowledge]

Why is the government even involved in marriage in the first place?

Maybe because one needn't be affiliated with a church to get married?
Maybe because marriage is mainly a secular institution?
Maybe because church's interest in marriage is quite recent (4-500 yrs) and they got into it because at that time most of the persons that were literate were clergy, so the church kept the records.
What gives religions the idea they "own" marriage?

The idea of marriage goes back farther in the faith than that, try over 1000 years. We branch off from the jews, who believed in the marriage of one man and one woman. 400-500 years? Wrong. Marriage is secular institution? Since when? What makes us think we own marriage? If we didn't come up with it then it is very likely it would not exist. Look at culteurs past, they were very premiscus and many had sexual relations outside of marriage. The Jews were different in that respect. We are Jews techinaclly. Therefore we had it first, it was ours to begin with, our inventioin, our tradtion.
God bless!

The first book of Moses takes it all the way back to the first human pair where we see the first wedding. We can conclude from this account in Genesis that marriage is God's idea, designed and instituted by the Creator. In these verses we also discover that at the heart of God's design for marriage is companionship and intimacy with women fulfillling a unique role and men fulfilling a unique role.

[Harry12345]

Why is the government even involved in marriage in the first place?

Maybe because one needn't be affiliated with a church to get married?
Maybe because marriage is mainly a secular institution?
Maybe because church's interest in marriage is quite recent (4-500 yrs) and they got into it because at that time most of the persons that were literate were clergy, so the church kept the records.
What gives religions the idea they "own" marriage?

Marriage should just be left up to couples and God, and a church if they want. Notice when the government is completely removed from the institution, nobody can claim their 'rights' anymore, they already have them.

[Imperial]

Here it is again : how will gay marriage drastically change your own lives?

[Harry12345]

Here it is again : how will gay marriage drastically change your own lives?

For a start, they'll get tax breaks, which the rest of us have to pay for.

[waynepii]

Here it is again : how will gay marriage drastically change your own lives?

For a start, they'll get tax breaks, which the rest of us have to pay for.

And THEY have to pay for your tax breaks.

[Gabrielman]

The first book of Moses takes it all the way back to the first human pair where we see the first wedding. We can conclude from this account in Genesis that marriage is God's idea, designed and instituted by the Creator. In these verses we also discover that at the heart of God's design for marriage is companionship and intimacy with women fulfillling a unique role and men fulfilling a unique role.

And there you have it. It was a Christian institution made by God. We had it first. You are trying to stomp on our traditions and faith by trying to steal it and change it and telling us we have to accept this change in our religion. Make your own institution. It would drastically affect our faith, and that is enough for me to be against it. I am not trying to be mean, but imagain if you had a tradition that was sacred to you and someone from another culter came along and told you that you had to change it to what they wanted it to be.
God bless!

[waynepii]

The first book of Moses takes it all the way back to the first human pair where we see the first wedding. We can conclude from this account in Genesis that marriage is God's idea, designed and instituted by the Creator. In these verses we also discover that at the heart of God's design for marriage is companionship and intimacy with women fulfillling a unique role and men fulfilling a unique role.

And there you have it. It was a Christian institution made by God. We had it first. You are trying to stomp on our traditions and faith by trying to steal it and change it and telling us we have to accept this change in our religion. Make your own institution. It would drastically affect our faith, and that is enough for me to be against it. I am not trying to be mean, but imagain if you had a tradition that was sacred to you and someone from another culter came along and told you that you had to change it to what they wanted it to be.
God bless!

So only Christians should be able to marry?

Many people are married in secular ceremonies performed by secular authority (judges, JPs, ship captains, etc), are those people less married than those of you who were married by clergy?

Marriage carries a number of privileges and responsibilities - virtually all of which are secular (tax status, inheritance, financial, community property, health care decisions, ... ). What are the "sacred" aspects of marriage that are so important to you?

As was asked before by another - what are the "drastic" effects same-sex marriage will have on your faith?

Wasn't plural marriage accepted in Biblical times? So wouldn't that indicate Gods "design" of marriage allowed polygamy?

Wasn't a woman's role as described in the Bible essentially subservient to her husband?

[Gabrielman]

So only Christians should be able to marry?

You really want my opinion on this? Okay, but you asked for it. Yes only Christians should be able to be married. Does that mean that there shouldn't be other forms of unions by different names, no, that means marriage is a Christian institution. I may be wrong to say that in many peoples eyes, but it is my belief.

Many people are married in secular ceremonies performed by secular authority (judges, JPs, ship captains, etc), are those people less married than those of you who were married by clergy?

In the traditional God sent marriage sense, yes they are "less married" as you put it. God recognizes people married in His name and His tradtions. Other marriages may be legal, but God doesn't recognize them.

Marriage carries a number of privileges and responsibilities - virtually all of which are secular (tax status, inheritance, financial, community property, health care decisions, ... ). What are the "sacred" aspects of marriage that are so important to you?

Since when was all that secular? Last I checked before secularism these things existed and were in faith based cultures around the world. What are the sacred aspects you ask, a union between man and woman in a physical, mental, and spiritual way. It acts on many levels. It is a time honored traditoin, one that we hold sacred. The union itself and the fact that it is brought before God and aproved by Him is sacred. The ceromony has sacred symbols. Do you know why the bride wears a veil? Do you know why it is important?

As was asked before by another - what are the "drastic" effects same-sex marriage will have on your faith?

I answered this already, pay attention. I said you would be stomping on my religous beliefs and telling me "well we are chaning what your faith says and you have to accept it." Now answer my question. Which was....

but imagain if you had a tradition that was sacred to you and someone from another culter came along and told you that you had to change it to what they wanted it to be.

What would you think then? Put yourself in this spot and tell me how you would react. Would you let everyone walk all over your faith and ideas cause they want to and they say you should let them?

Wasn't a woman's role as described in the Bible essentially subservient to her husband?

I never read that in the Bible.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sexism.html
If you are reffering to sexism in the Bible, read that.
So far as poligomy, there are pleanty of threads and posts about that here, why don't you read them instead of making me rewrite all this for you? Saves me time anyway
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... t=poligamy Here's one of them.
God bless!

[waynepii]

I answered this already, pay attention. I said you would be stomping on my religous beliefs and telling me "well we are chaning what your faith says and you have to accept it."

So YOUR beliefs trump everyone else's? IMO That's a REAL thin "answer".

Now answer my question. Which was....

Gabrielman wrote: but imagain if you had a tradition that was sacred to you and someone from another culter came along and told you that you had to change it to what they wanted it to be.

What would you think then? Put yourself in this spot and tell me how you would react. Would you let everyone walk all over your faith and ideas cause they want to and they say you should let them?

For instance - if an Imam told me my wife had to wear a burka in public from now on? You're right, I wouldn't like it.

But how would you like it someone tried to tell you that you couldn't marry whomever you wanted? It wasn't that long ago that marriage between races was not allowed (and the prohibition was endorsed by at least some churches).

Other than not being able to tell others they can't marry the person of their choice, do you have any other examples of the "drastic" effects on your faith?

[Gabrielman]

So YOUR beliefs trump everyone else's? IMO That's a REAL thin "answer".

Seeing as marriage was made by my religon, yes my beliefs trump others! Hello, why don't you all just make your own instatution and call it something else, rather than try and steal ours!? Seriously! Come on, you haven't yet grasped this have you? IT IS OUR INSTATUTION MADE BY A CHRISTIAN GOD FOR HIS PEOPLE Tell me that is not hard to understand, please, cause it is in lamens terms. So if people want to be married (again our instatution) they have to play by our rules. How about I just start makeing up rules for everything I don't like no matter what culture it affects? That wouldn't be right, nor is telling me that an institution of my faith should have rules inserted by those who are not in my faith.

For instance - if an Imam told me my wife had to wear a burka in public from now on? You're right, I wouldn't like it.

But how would you like it someone tried to tell you that you couldn't marry whomever you wanted? It wasn't that long ago that marriage between races was not allowed (and the prohibition was endorsed by at least some churches).

Other than not being able to tell others they can't marry the person of their choice, do you have any other examples of the "drastic" effects on your faith?

The not being able to interacialy marry thing was never supported by the Bible, by a bunch of racists sure, but not by God. Seeing as marriage is ours, again I have to mention that fact, I know that I will be able to marry whom I fall in love with cause that person will be a female. Other examples, how about this, if we let one part of our faith get altered by others cause they don't like, then why not other aspects? Why not destroy all of our instatutions and sensor what we can say and do and practice. Give an inch and they take a mile. Our faith has been distorted enough as it is, it needs to stop. Even our Holy holidays are being made into corperate money making sceams. Nothing is sacred to you all anymore, is it? Why stop here? Why not attack more of our ideas and claim them as your own? Do you see where this is going. It is ours, that's how it is. If two people want to be together why does it have to be in our Christian instatution of marriage? Why not make your own secular institution by another name then?

[Proinsias]

Seeing as marriage was made by my religon, yes my beliefs trump others!

Can I ask what do you mean by marriage here?

[ageofknowledge]

The math is really quite simple. The forumla is this: 1 man + 1 woman = 1 marriage

It's so simple that even a child can understand it.

[Gabrielman]

Seeing as marriage was made by my religon, yes my beliefs trump others!

Can I ask what do you mean by marriage here?

The union between one man and one woman, in a religious ceromony. That's what I mean. Therefore, marriage being deffined as between one man and one woman, it means a homosexual couple cannot be married. They are one man and one man/one woman and one woman. Think all the way back to Adam and Eve, one man and one woman. It isn't just moraly correct, it is scientifically right as well. A man was designed to be with a woman. Not to get into anatomy here, but that is why we are different in certian ways. Two of the same gender are not. God designed us to be different, and designed a man to be with a woman. He designed marriage. I must ask why everyone wants what our faith traditions are to be altered when they can make their own instatution and call it something else. That isn't hard, or impossible, and it would in theory kill the debate.

The math is really quite simple. The forumla is this: 1 man + 1 woman = 1 marriage

It's so simple that even a child can understand it.

Age good and simple. The simpilest answer is usually the most accurate!

[ageofknowledge]

Marriage is a divinely established partnership between a man and a woman and is the appropriate environment for birthing and nurturing children.

In God's creative act, humankind was made in "the image of God." This included both the male and the female, meaning that the "image" was not physical, but spiritual (Genesis 1:27). The analogous "likeness" between God and the human is also carried over into the husband-wife partnership (Genesis 2:20-24). The idea that the woman was created to be a "suitable" partner for the man suggests the difference between them made it possible for her to contribute something unique to his life. She could assist him in significant ways but she is not of an inferior essence; she is on an equal plane with the man. She holds the potential to enrich his life, and he has the opportunity to enrich hers. There are very important roles that a man and a woman and both together fulfill for each other and children that same sex parents simply cannot. At best, they end up trying to imitate what God instituted.

Technically, marriage results when a male and a female are joined together in a life-long bond. In an ideal situation, the parties are a match for each other spiritually, emotionally, and constitutionally. They have counted the cost and commit to be faithful to each other. They pledge to be responsible in the assumption of their appropriate roles. This commitment creates a warm and loving environment in which family members can develop. When husband and wife are committed to each other, children feel safe and secure. A secure home offers an attractive refuge for family members from the destructive forces of criticism and rejection on the outside.

God makes it clear that marriage is more than an informal partnership; it is a binding covenant. Commitment of husband and wife is so crucial that God condemns any violation of that marital relationship. Marital infidelity (adultery), like pre-marital sex (fornication), is wrong. It is wrong, not only because of the stigma, the risk of sexually transmitted disease, or an unwanted pregnancy. Sex outside marriage for a Christian is a violation of commitment to God. It is a sin against Christ. Adultery is also a potent enemy of the marriage, because it violates the commitment one party made to the other. Read
carefully Malachi 2:10-16 and 1 Corinthians 6:12-20.

From a Christian perspective, the decision to marry is consumed by love of God and love for one another. Love is more than an emotional feeling, lust, or a desire to be with someone. From a Christian perspective there is no way that two homosexuals are going to be in God's perfect will for their lives consumed with love for God in holiness. It's a scriptural impossibility. They are in sin and rebellion seeking to implement their own will and design contrary to God's will and design for them.