Evidence for God from Science

where will I hide during such a persecution as described in the bible?

We wont be cowering under a rock we will be declaring the Lords name even though we might be killed, this is what you need to prepare for.

carpentersson wrote:
Correct. This irrational hatred of Jews and the "born again" Christians is a flag of identification for Satan and his people.
If we fail as a nation to support Israel as we have in the past our country is cursed and will fall, but I hope and pray not.

Absolutely.. It took me awhile to figure it out, but any Christian who opposes Israel is actually opposing what God as done there. It serves as a great marker.

Satan is set to oppose and kill Jews. Anyone who supports such a view is actually supporting him and his evil plot..

carpentersson wrote:If we're right about the time of rapture, we must be prepared as best we can with faith in God's help to endure and glorify Christ during the coming time of tribulations.
If we're wrong, no worries, we'll be raptured and miss all the calamities and testing.
Pray for the best, prepare for the worst.

I've got a funny feeling that what was acted out in the Exodus will be the same type of thing that will be acted out in the latter days. As we saw in the Exodus, the Jews were surrounded by enemies but ran threw a wall of water to be saved.

RickD wrote:

Gman wrote:I'm not so hot on the rapture.. Most believers in the Bible went through many calamities in their life.. I think we will feel the brunt of satan's wrath but not God's wrath.

Also, much of the testing will happen on how we handle Israel..

I agree, Gman. I think the "Left Behind" series, opens many Christians up to a rude awakening. I'm not discounting the rapture, just discounting a rapture of the saints before satan's wrath. I just think that saying we will be taken up, to keep us from tribulation, isn't biblical. Christians face tribulation every day. The freedom we have in the western world, keeps us relatively safe from that, for now...

Yes.. That seems logical to me too.

carpentersson wrote:Gman and RickD You guys are thinkers.

The big question for me that evolves from this one is: What then can we do to prepare for the time of tribulation?
I would be interested to see the response from the other thinkers in the forum, but I don't know how to start such a question.

Yes... My belief about that is that Christians are directly tied to Israel... Therefore Israel will ultimately be our only place of secure refuge in the world when the gauntlet goes down.

Gman wrote:

carpentersson wrote:Gman and RickD You guys are thinkers.

The big question for me that evolves from this one is: What then can we do to prepare for the time of tribulation?
I would be interested to see the response from the other thinkers in the forum, but I don't know how to start such a question.

Yes... My belief about that is that Christians are directly tied to Israel... Therefore Israel will ultimately be our only place of secure refuge in the world when the gauntlet goes down.

Well, OK..If you're right, then a wise man will be prepared with enough savings or a secure plan of escape to Israel. But, then, if we are not allowed to buy or sell without the mark of the beast, how will we buy a ticket?

carpentersson wrote:

Gman wrote:

carpentersson wrote:Gman and RickD You guys are thinkers.

The big question for me that evolves from this one is: What then can we do to prepare for the time of tribulation?
I would be interested to see the response from the other thinkers in the forum, but I don't know how to start such a question.

Yes... My belief about that is that Christians are directly tied to Israel... Therefore Israel will ultimately be our only place of secure refuge in the world when the gauntlet goes down.

Well, OK..If you're right, then a wise man will be prepared with enough savings or a secure plan of escape to Israel. But, then, if we are not allowed to buy or sell without the mark of the beast, how will we buy a ticket?

Wise guys always prepare in advance..

Gman is absolutely right about the importance of israel. they are our spiritual brothers and sisters and in fact in Revelations Israel is represented as a woman and lthe body of Christ is labeled her offspring so any christian not caring about Israel is to me a slap in God's face about his people our spiritual brethern. From my studies Christ paints a perfect picture that the "rapture" i prefer our gathering to christ is before God's wrath which is not the tribulation. God's wrath is represented by the 7 bowls while the tribulation period is represented by the 7 seals and 7 trumpet blasts. In fact many pre tribers use 1 Thess 4 as "proof" of a pre trib rapture but notice he says at the sound of the trump. According to Revelations Christ's coming happens at the seventh trumpet blast which happens to be right before God's wrath is poured out in the form of the 7 bowls. Thats when the harvest is ready to be reaped in other words he gathers together the elect who remain on the earth.

I knew you 2 would get along perfectly

it seems like you were right murray i'm just excited to be able to converse with other believers. my advice though for anyone unsure about our gathering back to Christ please don't just take someone else's word for it go check God's word and pray on the matter and with time and patience he'll show you.
God bless everyone

Zionist wrote:Gman is absolutely right about the importance of israel. they are our spiritual brothers and sisters and in fact in Revelations Israel is represented as a woman and lthe body of Christ is labeled her offspring so any christian not caring about Israel is to me a slap in God's face about his people our spiritual brethern. From my studies Christ paints a perfect picture that the "rapture" i prefer our gathering to christ is before God's wrath which is not the tribulation. God's wrath is represented by the 7 bowls while the tribulation period is represented by the 7 seals and 7 trumpet blasts. In fact many pre tribers use 1 Thess 4 as "proof" of a pre trib rapture but notice he says at the sound of the trump. According to Revelations Christ's coming happens at the seventh trumpet blast which happens to be right before God's wrath is poured out in the form of the 7 bowls. Thats when the harvest is ready to be reaped in other words he gathers together the elect who remain on the earth.

Thank you Zionist. For a minute there I thought I was alone on this.. But yes. There is a critical link that many many Christians seem to forget. Including me.. Until my eyes were opened to it. It all happened when I went on a trip to Israel. That is, the bond.. We as Christians are suppose to bond with the Jews. It took me a long long time to figure this one out. Right now as I see it both camps are partly blind right now. That is the Christians and the Jews. Until that cloak of blindness get's lifted, we are kind of walking in darkness here.. When it does get lifted, we will bond under Yeshua...

The problem is... I don't know how to lift this blindness. Many Christians have demonized the Jews the visa versa. Once we bond however, that should call Yeshua back..

And where did the Christians blow it? By not following Torah and hurting our brothers the Jews...

exactly Gman. Christians are too stuck in only the new testament and Hebrews are too stuck to the Torah. We both need to come together as one for God so we as christians can understand the importance of Torah, how Jesus walked its ways and the history of our brethern and Hebrews can understand the importance of Christ and his fulfillment of Torah also the symbolism behind the Law and what it represents literally and figuratively.

Zionist wrote:exactly Gman. Christians are too stuck in only the new testament and Hebrews are too stuck to the Torah. We both need to come together as one for God so we as christians can understand the importance of Torah, how Jesus walked its ways and the history of our brethern and Hebrews can understand the importance of Christ and his fulfillment of Torah also the symbolism behind the Law and what it represents literally and figuratively.

There are few rapture verses within the OT as well and not confine alone to the HT ... So how do these two parts connect the dots?

Isa 26:17, 18, 19
Isa 26:20, 21

Zep 2:2, 3

See ya there mishpocha ...

@ B.W.
you must read carefully my friend. notice in Isaiah: 26: 20 He says until indignation is past. whose indignation is God talking about? go to Revelation 14: 6-13 we are shown three angels proclamations to the people of the earth. notice the third angel's proclamation: 9... "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on his forehead or hand, 10. he himself shall also drink of the wine of WRATH of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fise and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb." obviously we see it's God's indignation and Judgement against the earth. also notice after the third angel's proclamation Christ is told in verse 14 that the harvest is ready to be reaped. thats when our gathering to God happens. Notice the bowls are poured out after the Grapes of wrath are ready for reaping. God tells us to enter our chambers refering to Him reaping us who remain before God's wrath

@ B.W
as for Zep: 2: 2-3 its exactly the same thing here. notice the day of the Lord and before His anger comes upon you He pleads that you seek Him so you will not be appointed to his anger. what does He mean? read Revelation 11: 15-19 you'll notice the kingdoms of the earth have become kingdoms of God and of christ and that happens on the seventh trumpet blast representative of the Lord's day or the day of the lord because this is when Christ returns. Revelations 12 and 13 kinda does a flash back about satan, his rebellion and his role in the end times then in chapter 14 it picks back up right after the seventh trumpet blast then after the reaping of the elect (those of us who remain) are gathered to Christ then the bowls of judgement are ready to be poured out.