Evidence for God from Science

Personally, I'd really need to be there to see/hear for myself before I could give an honest judgment.

I would agree - which is why I set out on my own to do so.

It would be the height of arrogance for me to simply dismiss it all when it is so easy for me to go out and look.

I did go, I did look, and I found things which don't fit with my religion or science.

Explain it all? I cannot. But I can say I found evidence of a life past this one, and I think it is worth looking into.

Part of the problem, chance, is that a lot of people write off ghosts/souls/spirits as superstitious nonsense without giving it an honest look. People think the investigations are staged, rigged or set up. This may or may not be the case it's quite difficult to verify the truth of the nature of this phenomenon. I do think skeptical minds should go on a ghost hunt a few times with seasoned professionals, they might be surprised. I might look into these things myself. I am a skeptic of everything by nature, but I am a very open minded person who will give anything a chance.

I am a skeptic of everything by nature

As am I - which is why I decided to look for myself. And I was mystified by what I found.

It does not make sense - from a religious point of view or a scientific one. But there it was.

Evidence staring me in the face.

And this from a guy who was a fan of James Randi before he was well known. I studied math and physics when I was a young teen instead of going out and partying.

I was an atheist science loving guy at one time, and a theology loving guy another time.

I caught voices on tape, they interacted with me at times. Sometimes clear as day, at other times I needed to clean up the files (remove sounds of birds, cars, etc).

It would be arrogant of me to just dismiss it all in an effort to fit it all into my own personal views. If I try to fit things out there into my own views than I am biased, and I am not trying to be so. What I found was real and not just something I myself heard or saw (like the ghost I saw).

Shame on me if I just dismiss it all because it does not fit my own personal views or ideals.

It flys in the face of my religion, it does not fit with science - but I can say without a doubt I have heard things in my search which are real. Real voices that I cannot explain.

Quite fascinating if all that you are saying is true, which I don't see why you'd blatantly lie to me as you don't really have anything to gain in doing so.

What are some examples of things you have heard? What things have been said to you? I'm quite curious to hear what you have to say. I'm assuming you are Christian, with that assumption does this change your view of the common conception you go to heaven or hell right away after death? I know some hold that spirits wander earth until judgment day. Do you hold this view considering your findings?

I find it a little odd that I posted about a UCLA professor capturing a ghost on film, and no one seems to think anything of it . . .

I experienced a bad spirit once, but not in a long way or in a way that I could really explain to convince anyone. I've experienced some other things as well that I don't want to write here. I knew someone, whom I didn't doubt, who saw what he called a "demon" in his bedroom, twice, and he was scared to death. I've known a Christian couple who, with their extended family, experienced demonic activity in their house. I've heard pastors (local church, not "tv evangelists" or something) personally speak of exercising both houses and people. I have read a poem by a UN worker where she describes what spirits have said to her while she was "channeling" (the spirits were mostly fallen angels, but one deceased human, too). I can't say for 100% certainty that all these stories are true (most particularly the poem), but I have very little to no reason to doubt most of them.

Oh, and there's also Emanuel Swedenborg, "a scientist from the 1700s who claims to have seen human spirits. I don't agree with all of his ideas, but his claims of what he had seen and experienced are hard to simply write-off, to me." (From a previous thread post.)

I've had one experience that scared the taste out of my mouth. Hard to describe to someone, the best way I can describe it that I felt death come over me. The darkest, most evil feeling ever, while having a holiday in the Namib desert in Africa. If one had to describe an encounter with a demon, that's how I think it would feel. Nothing triggered it, I was getting ready to go to bed with my wife in the room, and she got scared seeing me react that way. I ran outside to check on the other people, but the feeling lingered, and then after some prayer, it was gone.

Now, if one sees the encounters that the ghost hunters on television present, it looks totally different. It is mostly non-threatening, and very rarely does it really spook someone in the way I was. As Christians we do believe in a spirit world that contains good and evil. Can it be accessed through technology? I really don't know. But I do know that it can manifest in our dimension.

Another quick story...a cousin of mine is a psychiatrist. During the course of her training she had to visit an institution where the most mentally ill were kept by the government. She described walking into a room where the patient was halfway up the wall in a corner, foaming at the mouth, with a really bad smell in the room. And when she spoke to him, the voice that answered came from the other corner...

I experienced a bad spirit once

To cslewislover: Thanks for the comment.

I wonder what the differences are between bad spirits, good ones, and neutral ones.

Maybe it sounds rather simple but to me it is not. There are many who would accept God more if they had a spiritual encounter, so bad spirits doing things here would most likely have the effect of moving people away from their consumerist type life and to a more spiritual one. Good spirits would have the same effect one would guess.

Neutral ones would have no stake in it all (generally speaking).

In the end I think we just don't understand the spirit world as much as we thought we did and how it interacts with ours (although the book flatland comes to mind and how the sphere interacted with the 2d world).

From a science point of view I would like to know more, though I suspect I will learn all I need to know when I get there

Looks like we all have encountered some kind of demonic force in our lives.. I can also attest to it here. Having a choking spirit in my room once. I couldn't breath and a voice, in a very low pitch, was yelling obscenities as me.. As soon as I yelled "Christ help me" it left.

But if we want to talk about something even more demonic, just talk to B.W. and his trip to hell. Can't top this experience..

http://www.afterhoursministries.com/

Did I scare everyone away?

Lol. I've had a similar experience, and I know of someone else who did as well.

Gman wrote:Did I scare everyone away?

The only thing that scares me anymore is that guy who stands on the other side of the sink in the bathroom, he mimics me in every way and he is just out right ugly!!!!

Gman wrote:Looks like we all have encountered some kind of demonic force in our lives.. I can also attest to it here. Having a choking spirit in my room once. I couldn't breath and a voice, in a very low pitch, was yelling obscenities as me.. As soon as I yelled "Christ help me" it left.

Yes we have it seems.... interesting that you had that happen to you, I had another experience happen to me (long story as to why anything would happen to me >_> but to put it blunt my family was and still is very very very very occult oriented and I can't wait to get away from them!!!!). I was just about to go to bed one morning (I work a late shift so I sleep during the day.... I am not a vampire, I promise!) any way, as I was about to lay down I heard a voice behind me say, and very clearly so "I am going to kill you!" now I hadn't even hit the hay yet so it can't be from sleeping, and the evil, yet unfortunately familiar presence that entered the room was just horrible!!! I said in return, "No you are not, becuase God protects me!" after which it was gone, but I still prayed! I have had many many many experiences with disembodied voices and screams and well.... there is a lot more to tell I am not willing to talk about yet, maybe later. And it is not all as simple as a disembodied voice or scream, oh no, there are much much much worse things!
God bless and protect us all!!!!!

cslewislover wrote:Lol. I've had a similar experience, and I know of someone else who did as well.

What was yours like? Could you please share?

Nathaniel,

That is some creepy stuff. Not to mention the dreams you've dealt with of late.

Are you connected to any prayer groups or wise and learned spiritual Christians?
For some reason it seems some people are more in the cross hairs of spiritual activity. We must not forget what the scriptures say in regards to praying in the spirit. We are 'spiritual' beings, that battle spiritual forces.

I have a good friend here in Knoxville, that meets with other Christians who experience very vivid prophetic dreams. They also have a group that stays in touch through the internet. This is totally out there to me, because I don't experience that regularly. I've only had a few dreams I can remember that I was certain or suspicious that they might be prophetic in nature.
If God has gifted you with dreams and visions, it is very likely that the enemy would also be active in that area of your life.

I'm confused when Chance says this contradicts his faith view. It certainly doesn't contradict what is in the bible. It might be in conflict with what the bible teaches us to do, but it is most certainly not incompatible. What is your faith position Chance?

jlay wrote:Nathaniel,

That is some creepy stuff. Not to mention the dreams you've dealt with of late.

Are you connected to any prayer groups or wise and learned spiritual Christians?
For some reason it seems some people are more in the cross hairs of spiritual activity. We must not forget what the scriptures say in regards to praying in the spirit. We are 'spiritual' beings, that battle spiritual forces.

I have a good friend here in Knoxville, that meets with other Christians who experience very vivid prophetic dreams. They also have a group that stays in touch through the internet. This is totally out there to me, because I don't experience that regularly. I've only had a few dreams I can remember that I was certain or suspicious that they might be prophetic in nature.
If God has gifted you with dreams and visions, it is very likely that the enemy would also be active in that area of your life.

At this current time I am not connected to any prayer groups or anything of the sort, though I was quite active not too long ago in that kind of thing with some older people who I consider to be my spiritual elders. While I have had a lot of nightmares I have had a few dreams that I told them that they saw as prophetic, and a few have actually come true. It is possible that they were right and that they are prophetic, however if that is true then some very bad things are coming, that aside if that is true then that would be a reason that the enemy would do what they have to me. However I also have to look at my family and what they have done and put me through when I was a kid with them. I will put it like this, the Ouija board was child's play to them. They were very into the occult and I was drug into that. Let's just say I have had more than a few face to face encounters with fallen angels and they seemed to take a liking to me over them, not sure why though. That's just a little history right now. Thank you for your concern.

What is your faith position Chance?

Basically that Jesus died for my sins

I am a Christian. I do find the bible though to be a lot more complex than we know at times (like Jesus said - some need milk others are ready for the meat).

I don't think it is always so simple to just grab a passage of the bible and use it out of context - and by context I mean:

1. Original intent within the book
2. How it applied to the people of that day and their understanding of things
3. The broader philosophical issues involved in the big picture (ie, OT vs NT, Gentiles vs Jews - like the prohibitions in the OT that we do not follow now)
4. How we view God in general and how we apply that to our world/life

As far as dreams, I have had several which were prophetic - but they were not something relating to big issues, terror attacks, etc. More relating to my own life and rather dull - but nonetheless were accurate. I have also had an out of body experience once and a few things I would term miracles.

I feel God did not reveal all there is to know with the spirit world to people back then, just like he revealed new things in the NT he did not in the OT - people were not ready to hear it or understand it all fully. As we have progressed there is more we can learn, and I feel God has given us the tools to do so - safely within his bounds - to explore more.

Chance, what kinds of phrases or things did the spirits say to you in your recordings?