Evidence for God from Science

B. W. wrote:

The11thDr. wrote:You can distance yourself from people here too, by ignoring them. I guess you dont mind hurting someone else if it makes you feel good.

"Hey they are just infidels right! they aren't humans like us!"-sure i admit it i AM a robot.

Not sure if I am understanding your motives correctly, but please show a little kindness, open-mindedness, and respect toward Catherine.

Thank you Doctor
-
-
-

I might need to check if i got some more compassion in stock, dont worry about the open mindedness and respect i wouldn't be here if i didn't want to learn, To learn you must want to be taught!-I dont know who said that...But its true and my granddad kept telling me that constantly among other things.

Really when im at it i go for the surgical strike, using words as blunt instruments can be damaging.

jlay wrote: Catherine, it could be that you are confused in some things regarding the HS, assurance, peace, etc, and how, when, and why we receive them. And just what it all is? According to the scriptures, when does one receive the HS?
How?
Why?

I get the impression on reading the bible that we recieve the Holy Spirit either immediately or soon after accepting Jesus as our Saviour. Usually after water baptism but sometimes before. So a non believer cannot be baptised in the Holy Spirit but I'm sure It can work in them to repentance etc. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is different to OT examples of the Holy Spirit. Under the New Covenant we are promised power from on high. I imagine being baptised with the Holy Spirit is receiving Jesus' spirit in a more powerful way, so that we are 'made alive' in our faith. I see it as a kind of 'stamp of approval' or 'stamp of proof' if you like that one really is now a 'new creation' in Christ.

We need the Holy Spirit to enable us to become like Christ. We can't do it in our strength. I try to be as good a person as I can, but my sinful tendencies limit my puny efforts all the time.

jlay wrote: I know this can all be confusing, because there are certainly varying opinions on this, and just what it means. But the answers are there, for you.........
How can the HS bear witness if you do not have it? And I am not saying that you don't. But taking in these things that you say,(at face value) indicates you have not heard His message and trusted Him. That is why I asked, "what does the gospel mean to you?" You didn't indicate it meant anything personally, only what you have heard it is supposed to mean.

Yes, I'm indicating what I think it is supposed to mean but I'm aware that this is a very personal thing. I'm trying to trust in Jesus, that He is who He said He was and that He can and will save me (and hopefully all my family). I want a relationship with Him, not just head knowledge. I believe the good news isn't just about 'eternal life' but about coming into a relationship with the Living God. This is what I want.

jlay wrote: -If you are 'going' places to meet Jesus, then you are making an error. Jesus is not in a building. He met Paul on a road. He met Moses in a Bush. Peter in a boat. And the list goes on.

Yes, I know this but just like the people who flocked to Jesus to see and hear Him, I suppose I 'go' to the people who are meant to have a relationship with Him, in the hope that where two or three are gathered He may also be there. As skeptical as I am I think I'm quite an optimist as well.

jlay wrote: Why does Catherine need saving? Do you believe that you need saving?

I do most definately need saving: saved from sin and death and eternal seperation from God. I am dying, as we all are, and I sin every day. As hard as I try I can't make myself 'not sin' and I need help. I pray that Jesus will save me and help me to become like Him, and that my family will too, and we will all come into His Kingdom.

jlay wrote: This is a darn good example of why we should not rely on feelings. You know that JW's are a cult and preach a false gospel. Yet you 'felt' assurance. I am sure there are Muslims, Buddhist, etc. that feel certain they are right. After all there are Muslims willing to blow themselves up because they are so SURE of their faith. What do their feelings, that they are right, have to do with truth? Very little. It is apparent to me that God has given you some spiritual clarity to recognize such. It sounds as if you are sure that JWs are wrong. And how could you be sure, unless there were something objectively right to measure it against. As far as God answering you. I would only warn that to get the right answers we must ask the right questions. Further, I would say that God has been and is answering you. It could be a matter of static. There is obviously a lot that has gone on in your past, that is interferring with your reception, so to speak.

You make some good points here and I know that I can't rely on my feelings. I believe the assurance that the Holy Spirit is to give, is 'more' than the superficial, day to day 'feelings' that we experience. I'm not saying that means I'd always 'feel' this assurance. I don't know?? I just think 'spiritual' feelings are different from 'carnal' feelings. I suspect strongly that this is the case. I agree that a lot of stuff in the past has and is interferring with how I 'see' things now. Again I pray that the Holy Spirit will clear out this 'dross' and free my mind and spirit of anything that is hampering me.

jlay wrote: Also, I am not sure how you are understanding 1 Thess 1:5 to apply in your situation. Can you clarify?
It is very important when going to the scripture to make sure that we rightly divide the word of truth. Grabbing verses here or there out of context, is only going to further confuse the matter, and leave you frustrated.

I don't think I 'grabbed this verse' out of context. It's talking about 'believers' 'brothers in Christ' and how they received the gospel that Paul brought to them. Now either way, if the 'assurance' they received from the Holy Spirit 'in power' occurred when they first heard this gospel and believed, or after when Paul brought them more teachings, or it's an ongoing thing, it doesn't really matter. The point I was trying to make is that not just this verse but many verses in the NT talk of believers 'receiving' the Holy Spirit in such a powerful way (like Pentecost) that they are invigorated in their faith. They have boldness and assurance, not just a half baked 'hope' that it might be true. Now, when I pray to God and ask Him to save me through His Son and forgive me etc, I'm of course going to expect to receive the Holy Spirit, maybe not 'powerfully' like Pentecost, but at the least , just the 'assurance' would be amazing. Wow, to have God's Spirit bear witness with my Spirit, that He really does love me and His Son, Jesus has saved me, would be amazing. I need to keep asking for this. Maybe like in the parable, They will get fed up of me keep 'banging on the door' and finally grant this. I need to not 'throw in the towel' so easily because I 'feel' down and that God is not listening to me. I need to persevere, but I'm so weak and I don't do 'unrequited love' very well. By that I mean, if you keep trying to get some ones's attention and they seem to be ignoring you, you get fed up after a while and give up. I'm like this alot of the time.


B.W, I've got to go to work now, so I'll come back to your message later today.

jlay wrote:

My closet is my church. If you don't feel comfortable praying openly in public then pray in your closet. It's about having a relationship with Christ, not other people.

Danny, not to be rude, but that is just bad advice. Christ was all about others. His command was to love one another. Yes, it is about our relationship with Christ. No question. But in no way does that exclude others. Not in any way.

Jlay, what's so bad about advising somebody who's uncomfortable with fellowship to pray in their closet? It's not to decry fellowship, but rather to let it be known that you are not a bad Christian if you do not feel comfortable in that public show of faith. The personal relationship between Christian and Christ is paramount. I can't see what's bad about that ...?

catherine wrote:I do believe my experience with the JWs left me spiritually wounded. They are 'against' Christendom and so do a good job of putting you off 'churches'.
It wasn't so much me 'seeing through their errors' but more me 'turning my back of 'the truth' as they call it. I could see they were wrong on things like 'blood', but I thought they were 'right' on enough stuff. They are very legalistic and I found it hard to live that way e.g going out on the work every week, trying to distance myself from the 'world' when I lived in a house of 'unbelievers'. It made me depressed. I'd already had boyfriends by 15 so I had the tug of the world and it's ways beckoning me back and so I left them (and I thought God). When I went to the meetings I did feel a 'connectedness' there which I don't think I've ever felt so strongly at any church. I was young though and you are more impressionable when you are young, so I don't know if that assured feeling was spiritual or just me feeling secure amoung people who seemed to be God's people.

As for 'assurance' I don't believe it is a 'road to Damascus' experience I'm wanting. I know Jesus isn't going to appear to me and confirm all my doubts etc and say 'be assured now'. It's an inner working of the Holy Spirit that the scriptures tell us He does. The Holy Spirit is to bear witness with my spirit that the 'good news' is indeed true etc and the result of that is assurance, peace maybe. Perhaps I've sinned too much and turned my back on God too many times and I can't receive the Holy Spirit? When I've gone to churches in the past year I've been hoping to 'meet' Jesus there, that is, know He is present in His Spirit. I even go to a Christian Book Shop in their cafe hoping He'll be there and help me.

If we look at that verse I quoted from 1 Thess 1:5, this is a powerful verse. It is saying to me that just having a 'head knowledge' of the 'good news' isn't what you receive in the 'New Covenant'. You also receive the Holy Spirit which brings alive this head knowledge so that you have the assurance that this knowledge is true. I don't think I've received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet, and maybe I need laying on of hands for that. I'm praying about whether this is the case and if God can provide the means to me receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, whether on my own or by the help of two or three gathered in His name. Maybe I need to have water baptism first. I got baptised in the sea about 15 years ago, but at the time I don't know if I was really doing it for the right reasons or to please other people. I'm not sure.

The working of the Holy Spirit isn't necessarily supernatural. Consider the story of the drowning man. He gets himself into a situation where he is treading water to stay afloat out at sea. He cries out to God and prays to be rescued. A boat comes along and those onboard attempt to rescue the man. But he resists believing that God will come to his rescue. The boat sails on, and the man again calls out to God to rescue him. Another boat passes by and attempts to perform a rescue, but the man again resists and the boat sails on. The man cries out to God a third time and a third boat approaches and the man again rejects the efforts of those onboard to save him. After the third boat sails on the man drowns. Now dead, the man asks God, "why didn't you save me?" God replies, "I sent three boats your way but you passed each one up."

I think sometimes we are looking too much for a supernatural working, or revelation of the Holy Spirit, and fail to see His natural working. The Holy Spirit has been with us since Christ ascended. He bears witness with our spirit through truth, Scripture, people in our lives, and more often than not via natural means. Ageofknowledge who use to frequent here, seemed to understand this fact better than most.

Being raised by Pentecostal parents I was like the man in that story for some time. Always wanting a supernatural experience. And my faith in God suffered somewhat because of it. At around 18 years of age, unlike you, but similar to you, I said a crossroad prayer to God asking for a sign that He is real. I didn't just want feelings that He was real, but I wanted "assurance" through a divine supernatural experience. I wanted the shining light. Instead, I got more feelings and what I perceived to be close experiences with God. While these were reassuring, it was not the assurance I wanted.

Shortly after that prayer, I moved into a new place. Soon JWs began knocking on my door. I invited them in, and we discussed many issues about God including blood transfusions (which they were taught artificial blood worked just as well!), and particularly the Holy Spirit and Trinity which they took exception to. I was for the first time depending on myself to reason through what I believe, and I knew they were wrong about the Trinity because I just knew. To be wrong, would mean my personal relationship and experiences with God and the Holy Spirit were wrong, and if you knew my life and what I had been through, that is an awful lot to topple. But, I needed reasons. So I ordered a series of books by Martin Lloyd-Jones to do with The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Within, I had enough Scripture to convince me I was on safe ground Scripturally believing in Christ's divinity.

I began coming across some Christian sites, this website, and began an inward road into reading Christian apologetics and debating Atheists online. I received the assurance I needed and had prayed for, albeit it was not what I had in mind. Now I can't be undone, but I still hope to obtain a fuller revelation of God. If it doesn't happen in this life, then I know that day will come when I die. Until then, I can see God's hand that has guided my life, protected me from myself when I needed protection, guided me through pain and heartache, personal and family problems while growing up. I can clearly see the footsteps of the Holy Spirit in the sand even if I don't physically see Him. And now I have many blessings in my life - a loving wife, a beautiful daughter and son, financial blessings (even if I am kind of out of a job right now!), house (and mortgage)... Maybe they're not all blessings. But I've walked with God long enough to trust whatever happens is a part of God's plan, and if I thwart plan A, He has a plan B, although plan A probably would have been a lot easier for myself!

So I have a respect for JWs, which I know they don't have for me when they visit (at least I feel they are just humouring me and that they really think I belong to Satan), since they were used in God's plan to answer my "crossroad" prayer. Of all people, JWs helped me to put reason to my faith rather than just religious experiences. Don't fret. I am sure you will have occasions where you feel close to God, that He is right there, and if you haven't I think you count on those times to come. They are good to have and help to reinforce the personal side to our God. Both experience and reason are important to have. However, we are not saved by either. We are saved by Christ and hoping in Him.

In 1 Thess 1:3, two verses before 1 Thess 1:5, we read: "remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ." What is "hope"? Is it not to believe something to be the case, which may not be the case? Where is our assurance in this? Paul even says if Christ did not rise then Christians are to be pitied above all because we believe we are saved but still remain in our sin. Some others here might disagree with this, however we can have some assurance, even a strong assurance that we are saved, but it is impossible to be completely assured. This is why we place our hope in Christ. We are not called to be completely assured in Christ, but called to hope in and believe Christ's promises. That is not to say assurance cannot be had, but any assurance is built upon belief, and belief upon knowledge and our knowledge of things may be wrong. But, I would be entirely shocked to find out when I die given all I know and have experienced that I am to pitied above all for my belief and hope in Christ.

Anyway, enough rambling again. I just hope some of what I have written helped to put into context the type of assurance we should have, and can realistically have. You continue to be in my prayers.

The11thDr. wrote:

B. W. wrote:

The11thDr. wrote:You can distance yourself from people here too, by ignoring them. I guess you dont mind hurting someone else if it makes you feel good.

"Hey they are just infidels right! they aren't humans like us!"-sure i admit it i AM a robot.

Not sure if I am understanding your motives correctly, but please show a little kindness, open-mindedness, and respect toward Catherine.

Thank you Doctor
-
-
-

I might need to check if i got some more compassion in stock, dont worry about the open mindedness and respect i wouldn't be here if i didn't want to learn, To learn you must want to be taught!-I dont know who said that...But its true and my granddad kept telling me that constantly among other things.

Really when im at it i go for the surgical strike, using words as blunt instruments can be damaging.

Thank You Doctor...
-
-
-

Jlay, what's so bad about advising somebody who's uncomfortable with fellowship to pray in their closet? It's not to decry fellowship, but rather to let it be known that you are not a bad Christian if you do not feel comfortable in that public show of faith.

Absolutely nothing. That is not what I took exception with.

The personal relationship between Christian and Christ is paramount. I can't see what's bad about that ...?

Agreed.

It's about having a relationship with Christ, not other people.

My issue was with this quote.

Hi Catherine

Well after reading the posts I just wanted to say that when you don't have the feelings it does not matter as long as you got the faith, as your feelings will catch up with your faith. For example, when I got born again, i asked God to forgive me my sin and asked him to come and save and look after me and come into my heart and life. I felt nothing except an excited expectancy somehow. There was no earthquake or swinging chandeliers and I asked the man and woman who introduced me to Jesus how will I know he has come? He just smiled at me and said just enjoy the peace! Well peace is something I never had until then. Well i went to bed that night and and it was in the night that God visited me, there was HOLY presence in my room. i WAS A CHANGED PERSON THE NEXT DAY. Truly born again! Washed as white as snow from top to toe. I did have peace. All depression gone! I was grateful. Anyway next step was baptism in water which God led me to do as I had read it in the gospels how Jesus was baptized and knew I had to be. Done deal! I was baptized by a pastor I knew in a church at that time. I was delivered from smoking that day! No withdrawals. Then next I desired the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and wanted to speak in tongues. 2 months down the line, I allowed the Holy Spirit to take over. I spoke in tongues, but more than that I was filled with dynamic power which I have learned is dunamis power of God! It's power to pray. It was power full stop! I felt like a person (Holy Spirit) had come to live on the inside of me to use my body, look through my eyes, use my hands etc. It was dynamic! But the crux of the matter which I think you should understand is that I believed God and I took him at his word. Accept his word when you don't 'feel' it. UNBELIEF IS A SIN. AGREE WITH HIS WORD. Its about faith not feelings but soon enough your feelings will change as God moves upon them by his spirit. BUT our faith is based upon his word and spirit together. Paul said he did not come to the people with persuasive words but by the power of the Holy Spirit. And so he came to me. Believe, receive by faith! PS The Lord wants our emotions under the control of the Spirit. Hope that helps.

sharon wrote:Hi Catherine

Well after reading the posts I just wanted to say that when you don't have the feelings it does not matter as long as you got the faith, as your feelings will catch up with your faith. For example, when I got born again, i asked God to forgive me my sin and asked him to come and save and look after me and come into my heart and life. I felt nothing except an excited expectancy somehow. There was no earthquake or swinging chandeliers and I asked the man and woman who introduced me to Jesus how will I know he has come? He just smiled at me and said just enjoy the peace! Well peace is something I never had until then. Well i went to bed that night and and it was in the night that God visited me, there was HOLY presence in my room. i WAS A CHANGED PERSON THE NEXT DAY. Truly born again! Washed as white as snow from top to toe. I did have peace. All depression gone! I was grateful. Anyway next step was baptism in water which God led me to do as I had read it in the gospels how Jesus was baptized and knew I had to be. Done deal! I was baptized by a pastor I knew in a church at that time. I was delivered from smoking that day! No withdrawals. Then next I desired the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and wanted to speak in tongues. 2 months down the line, I allowed the Holy Spirit to take over. I spoke in tongues, but more than that I was filled with dynamic power which I have learned is dunamis power of God! It's power to pray. It was power full stop! I felt like a person (Holy Spirit) had come to live on the inside of me to use my body, look through my eyes, use my hands etc. It was dynamic! But the crux of the matter which I think you should understand is that I believed God and I took him at his word. Accept his word when you don't 'feel' it. UNBELIEF IS A SIN. AGREE WITH HIS WORD. Its about faith not feelings but soon enough your feelings will change as God moves upon them by his spirit. BUT our faith is based upon his word and spirit together. Paul said he did not come to the people with persuasive words but by the power of the Holy Spirit. And so he came to me. Believe, receive by faith! PS The Lord wants our emotions under the control of the Spirit. Hope that helps.

Thanks for sharing Sharon and glad to see you on the forum!

God Bless!
-
-
-

jlay wrote:

It's about having a relationship with Christ, not other people.

My issue was with this quote.

What about it? I wouldn't worry Jlay, my "advice" was not even acknowledged anyway. Hey, nobody loses.

B. W. wrote: Your longing for assurance is evidence that you are saved as well as developing faith. You would not have these otherwise as you description goes way beyond mere curiosity. You have longing. You can rest in the word that Christ gives in John 3:16 and John 10:28, 29. -

I hope so B.W.

B. W. wrote: Maybe the first lesson to let you know you are accepted is for us to compare what you learned from the JW's with Orthodox Christian doctrine. So you can ask questions here. In this, maybe your first sign that your are accepted will speak to you in ways those who will try to help you may not even realize. Therefore:

What were the two most troubling things you learned from the JW's? -

Well, I've spent a lot time over the years checking out the JWs major doctrines that are contrary to orthodox Chrisitianity and proving to myself that the JWs are wrong and so I don't think my problem is with their 'doctrines' now. I can see they are in error in much if not most of what they believe. I think it's more to do with the 'mind control' elements they employ, which may still have some kind of physchological 'barrier' in my mind?? I spent hours in my teens, reading their literature and immersing myself in how they 'do' things. e.g don't check other sources, trust in them alone, don't mix with the world unnecessarily, you must go out on the 'work'. I don't know if my involvement with the J.Ws is still having a bearing on my situation now. My lack of faith, doubts and not feeling assurance may well just be down to some kind of 'block' that my mind puts up. I don't know. I'll say more about this as I reply to Kurieuo and Sharon. Thanks for your help in this B.W. I much appreciate it.

DannyM wrote:

jlay wrote:

It's about having a relationship with Christ, not other people.

My issue was with this quote.

What about it? I wouldn't worry Jlay, my "advice" was not even acknowledged anyway. Hey, nobody loses.

Hi DannyM, sorry I didn't acknowledge your post. I did half agree with what you said. I do think it is important not to forsake the gathering of yourselves together, as Paul encourages us, because I think like one solitary lump of burning coal, it will soon 'go out' if left to burn on it's own. If you put it in the fire with the other 'coals' it will continue to burn. I think it's too easy to fall into your old habits and ways if you stay isolated on your own. I for one, need help and encouragement. Also, when there are a group of believers coming together to worship God, there seems to be more power in the worship. I am on my own at the minute because I don't know where I'm meant to meet with other believers, but I hope it won't be for long. Then again, I'm not really on my own, because I get fellowship here with you guys. Thank you for your post, and sorry if I offended you before.

Kurieuo wrote: I think sometimes we are looking too much for a supernatural working, or revelation of the Holy Spirit, and fail to see His natural working. The Holy Spirit has been with us since Christ ascended. He bears witness with our spirit through truth, Scripture, people in our lives, and more often than not via natural means. Ageofknowledge who use to frequent here, seemed to understand this fact better than most.

I do see that this is the case. 'Natural means' are probably the majority of 'means'. This doesn't however rule out the promise of 'supernatural means' ie the Holy Spirit that is poured out on believers in Christ. By 'pouring out' I mean baptism in the Holy Spirit, as opposed to the Holy Spirit working in the background, like He did in the OT and still does now. From reading scripture, I am getting the impression that more 'power' is involved in the New Covenant. Not all the time, no! Natural means still are the norm. But there are gifts poured out, and the 'assurance' that is mentioned is surely a 'supernatural' occurrence?

Kurieuo wrote:Being raised by Pentecostal parents I was like the man in that story for some time. Always wanting a supernatural experience. And my faith in God suffered somewhat because of it. At around 18 years of age, unlike you, but similar to you, I said a crossroad prayer to God asking for a sign that He is real. I didn't just want feelings that He was real, but I wanted "assurance" through a divine supernatural experience. I wanted the shining light. Instead, I got more feelings and what I perceived to be close experiences with God. While these were reassuring, it was not the assurance I wanted.

I don't want 'the shining light' experience. I don't want a 'sign' per se. I just want 'assurance' which must come from outside of me. I can't conjur this up. It is a gift of the Holy Spirit just as faith is. Faith too is a gift of God, so it says: Eph 2:8.

Kurieuo wrote:In 1 Thess 1:3, two verses before 1 Thess 1:5, we read: "remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ." What is "hope"? Is it not to believe something to be the case, which may not be the case? Where is our assurance in this? Paul even says if Christ did not rise then Christians are to be pitied above all because we believe we are saved but still remain in our sin. Some others here might disagree with this, however we can have some assurance, even a strong assurance that we are saved, but it is impossible to be completely assured. This is why we place our hope in Christ. We are not called to be completely assured in Christ, but called to hope in and believe Christ's promises. That is not to say assurance cannot be had, but any assurance is built upon belief, and belief upon knowledge and our knowledge of things may be wrong. But, I would be entirely shocked to find out when I die given all I know and have experienced that I am to pitied above all for my belief and hope in Christ.

I get the impression from reading the NT, that those guys had a very strong 'assurance'- maybe not 100%. Everyone can have doubts. The Holy Spirit bearing witness with your spirit, must surely give rise to a 'strong' assurance, surely?

Kurieuo wrote: Anyway, enough rambling again. I just hope some of what I have written helped to put into context the type of assurance we should have, and can realistically have. You continue to be in my prayers.

What you said did 'get me down' I must admit. Yet again, I feel it's my fault that I don't have this assurance and that I must be understanding the scriptures incorrectly. Why doesn't the Holy Spirit bear witness with my spirit? This is not the 'drowning man' scenario. This is clear cut. I've asked Jesus into my life to be my saviour. I've asked Him to forgive me for not fully believing He even exists. I've asked Him to give me 'assurnace' in my spirit that He is real and is my Saviour. Now if He's sent it and I haven't recognised it, then more to be pitied am I. I don't think He'd play such a 'trick' or allow myself to hoodwink myself.

sharon wrote:Hi Catherine

Well after reading the posts I just wanted to say that when you don't have the feelings it does not matter as long as you got the faith, as your feelings will catch up with your faith. For example, when I got born again, i asked God to forgive me my sin and asked him to come and save and look after me and come into my heart and life. I felt nothing except an excited expectancy somehow. There was no earthquake or swinging chandeliers and I asked the man and woman who introduced me to Jesus how will I know he has come? He just smiled at me and said just enjoy the peace! Well peace is something I never had until then. Well i went to bed that night and and it was in the night that God visited me, there was HOLY presence in my room. i WAS A CHANGED PERSON THE NEXT DAY. Truly born again! Washed as white as snow from top to toe. I did have peace. All depression gone! I was grateful. Anyway next step was baptism in water which God led me to do as I had read it in the gospels how Jesus was baptized and knew I had to be. Done deal! I was baptized by a pastor I knew in a church at that time. I was delivered from smoking that day! No withdrawals. Then next I desired the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and wanted to speak in tongues. 2 months down the line, I allowed the Holy Spirit to take over. I spoke in tongues, but more than that I was filled with dynamic power which I have learned is dunamis power of God! It's power to pray. It was power full stop! I felt like a person (Holy Spirit) had come to live on the inside of me to use my body, look through my eyes, use my hands etc. It was dynamic! But the crux of the matter which I think you should understand is that I believed God and I took him at his word. Accept his word when you don't 'feel' it. UNBELIEF IS A SIN. AGREE WITH HIS WORD. Its about faith not feelings but soon enough your feelings will change as God moves upon them by his spirit. BUT our faith is based upon his word and spirit together. Paul said he did not come to the people with persuasive words but by the power of the Holy Spirit. And so he came to me. Believe, receive by faith! PS The Lord wants our emotions under the control of the Spirit. Hope that helps.

Hi Sharon, I really appreciate you sharing your experiences with me and guys here. Thank you.

You truly had a 'pentecost' type experience.

I try to still 'accept' God's word even when I feel down. I felt so down last night. I don't very often feel depressed. I've been lucky that I rarely feel it. I really felt depressed last night. I still felt bad when I woke up this morning, which is maybe the first time that has happend to me. If I feel down or upset at bedtime, I'm back to normal by morning. This morning I still felt as bad. I went back to sleep til about half ten this morning. I got up and the day was gloriously sunny and warm. The birds were singing and God was in His Heaven and the world was still going on as usual regardless of how I felt. I thought, well just cos I feel down, doesn't effect my 'feelings' towards my family, so why should I feel 'bad' towards God? As soon as I got up I felt ok again and I've had a good day. Thank God. I hope I get to experience the 'peace' you felt and ultimately the assurance.

catherine wrote:Hi DannyM, sorry I didn't acknowledge your post. I did half agree with what you said. I do think it is important not to forsake the gathering of yourselves together, as Paul encourages us, because I think like one solitary lump of burning coal, it will soon 'go out' if left to burn on it's own. If you put it in the fire with the other 'coals' it will continue to burn. I think it's too easy to fall into your old habits and ways if you stay isolated on your own. I for one, need help and encouragement. Also, when there are a group of believers coming together to worship God, there seems to be more power in the worship. I am on my own at the minute because I don't know where I'm meant to meet with other believers, but I hope it won't be for long. Then again, I'm not really on my own, because I get fellowship here with you guys. Thank you for your post, and sorry if I offended you before.

Hi Catherine. I wasn't really moaning about you not "getting back" to me; I just wanted to slot my short view up of the situation as I read it. I was being flippant with Jlay on the 'assumption' that he was right and my "advice" was bad. I am in no way decrying fellowship; heck, this forum has given me some of the best fellowship I have ever had. But I do wince a little when I hear people worrying about fellowship and others do not come forward with advice about personal prayer/faith/relationship with Christ. My preference is certainly my closet. My closet is my church. My closet is where I really speak with God; where I speak more openly and honestly.

Hey, that doesn't make me a weird recluse or anything- honest! When it comes to my interaction, I'm better off alone with the Lord. But I hope you see that I do not mean to decry or discourage the fellowship and the joy that people obviously do get from it. Different strokes 'n' all that

DannyM wrote: Hey, that doesn't make me a weird recluse or anything- honest! When it comes to my interaction, I'm better off alone with the Lord. But I hope you see that I do not mean to decry or discourage the fellowship and the joy that people obviously do get from it. Different strokes 'n' all that

Hi Danny, I understand where you are coming from.