Evidence for God from Science

Why are we even talking about women ministers? Isn't it a little bit patronising? Should we talk about how Black people are doing a spiffing job in Western society as a minority? Would we even dare? I think that, if there really were 'no issue', then we wouldn't even be thinking about this, let alone debating it. The fact that we're talking about a minority gender of minister shows how patronising we really are. It also shows that we don't really believe that it is normal for women ministers to exist.

DannyM wrote:Why are we even talking about women ministers?

Reasonable question, but if you do not wish to be taught, how can you learn?

DannyM wrote: Isn't it a little bit patronising?

I would say a LOT, actually.

DannyM wrote: Should we talk about how Black people are doing a spiffing job in Western society as a minority? Would we even dare?

He who dares, Wins. but saying such a thing IS a kind of positive discrimination so it should not be done.

DannyM wrote:I think that, if there really were 'no issue', then we wouldn't even be thinking about this, let alone debating it. The fact that we're talking about a minority gender of minister shows how patronising we really are.

Yes it does. I find it strange how some Christians cant Accept a woman as "representing Jesus".

DannyM wrote:It also shows that we don't really believe that it is normal for women ministers to exist.

It does not have to always be like that.

DannyM wrote:Why are we even talking about women ministers?

Why not? They do GOD's work as well as men.

DannyM wrote:Isn't it a little bit patronising?

No, GOD loves us all the same. We are all his children. Male or Female, Black or White.

DannyM wrote:Should we talk about how Black people are doing a spiffing job in Western society as a minority?

What does skin color have to do with anything?

sinnerbybirth wrote:

DannyM wrote:Why are we even talking about women ministers?

Why not? They do GOD's work as well as men.

DannyM wrote:Isn't it a little bit patronising?

No, GOD loves us all the same. We are all his children. Male or Female, Black or White.

DannyM wrote:Should we talk about how Black people are doing a spiffing job in Western society as a minority?

What does skin color have to do with anything?

Oh Boy sinnerbybirth! You did it now! You just may have awoken the wrath of DannyM! You should not have done that!

Well, considering how women have been told by many people in the church that their place is rather limited, I don't mind being reminded once in awhile!!

I don't think it's patronizing...it's rather validating a bit.

sinnerbybirth wrote:

DannyM wrote:Why are we even talking about women ministers?

Why not? They do GOD's work as well as men.

Sinner, you have completely missed the sentiment behind my post. Please take another look.

sinnerbybirth wrote:

DannyM wrote:Isn't it a little bit patronising?

No, GOD loves us all the same. We are all his children. Male or Female, Black or White.

Yes, I know. Can you not see yet how you have missed my point?

sinnerbybirth wrote:

DannyM wrote:Should we talk about how Black people are doing a spiffing job in Western society as a minority?

What does skin color have to do with anything?

[/quote]

Well since you ask, skin colour here amounts to an analogy. To be more precise, I'm using the analogy of another minority group. So skin colour, as you put it, was used by me as an analogy to try to ram home my point.

It's quite incredible that you have somehow perceived my post to be against women. Please, take another look and try to get the point. If I have failed to get 'the point' across adequately, then I must apologise in advance, and I will immediately withdraw this response to you.

Kristoffer wrote:I am not open because it seems unneccessary, god could simply completely recreate our bodies, why would a kind of separated essence be necessary. If there is at all a way to observe the soul, then I would believe.

Also there are as many definitions of God as there are human beings, my idea of what a god could possibly be might not meet your approval.

I haven't read the rest of the responses yet, but this too is just not answering anything and some if isn't even true. I know many human beings who share the same definition of God as I do, so right there there are fewer def.s than humans. I would wager that in the world, that there are far fewer definitions of "God" than the number of humans.

As for your body/spirit comment, it even goes against your own previous post. You already said you'd be open to spirit, but not to soul, but now you're saying you're not open to spirit. If you can't discuss things here with any consistency, then I don't understand what the point of talking with you is . . . Otherwise, you are very illogical. You can't see quarks, but I bet any money you believe they exist. Do you know everything about quarks? Whose to say they aren't "spiritual"? I'm not saying they are, I'm arguing. There are ways of knowing that we use everyday that are not simply "seeing" something. If you were a blind person, I guess you wouldn't know anything!! And if you didn't mean "seeing" by "observing," then I'd like to know what you meant.

Anyway, why are you here?? I don't care what definition of God you might have, as long as you're here to learn and participate in a meaningful and respectful way. You seem completely materialistic and unwilling to even try and understand the Bible, so, why are you here? This site is Evidence for God from Science. It's presupposed that you have some understanding of God, a commonly understood definition at least. If you don't want to participate with that in mind, then this site isn't for you.

Well Danny, it seems I owe you a big fat I'm sorry. I should have taken the time to slow down and read your post closer. Based on what our little athiest friend replied, I jumped the gun. My bad.
I wonder if oxygen deprivation has anything to do with it.

cslewislover wrote:

Anyway, why are you here [Kristoffer] ?? I don't care what definition of God you might have, as long as you're here to learn and participate in a meaningful and respectful way. You seem completely materialistic and unwilling to even to try and understand the Bible, so, why are you here? This site is Evidence for God from Science. It's presupposed that you have some understanding of God, a commonly understood definition at least. If you don't want to participate with that in mind, then this isn't for you.

Ain't no point
Dealin' wit' a foo'
'Cause all they do
Is ''oink-oink-oink!''

FL

PS...I wanted to post this in the poetry thread but it seemed more appropriate here.

sinnerbybirth wrote:Well Danny, it seems I owe you a big fat I'm sorry. I should have taken the time to slow down and read your post closer. Based on what our little athiest friend replied, I jumped the gun. My bad.
I wonder if oxygen deprivation has anything to do with it.

Sinner, you're a gentleman! I don't think I was as clear as I could have been, but I'm glad we're on the same page brother!

Danny

This whole controversy about woman preachers is because of 1 Timothy 2:12, and related verses. Conservative Christians take this verse as the final word, I guess you could say, and view Paul's statement as God-inspired: "I do not permit a woman to teach." It has to do with the man being the responsible one in the order of Christ's church, and in his household too, etc. Even though Eve took the fruit after Satan talked with her, Adam went along with it. It was his responsibility, not Eve's. I'm not saying I totally agree with the conservative view on this. Other fairly conservative Christians view it as a more local admonition. I don't know. I read once of a woman preacher in Africa. Where she was at, all the men were drunk all of the time (that's what I read in her biography!), so there were no men to preach. So she stepped forward and ran the church, and it did well (was blessed).

1 Timothy is the only book in the bible that I've questioned in my mind it's overall integrity (genuineness). There is the closely following verse about women being saved in childbearing, which, in my view, defies explanation (yes, I've read a number of explanations). So I don't know. You read the NT altogether, and it's obvious that Paul respects women and calls out women who have helped him and even taught him. So, I guess in view that the NT is reliable and genuine in its entirety, I would have to think that 1 Timothy 2:12 is addressing a local or regional problem.

DannyM wrote: Sinner, you're a gentleman!

Danny, thank you for the compliment. But, I was in the wrong in my assumption. Your comment speaks volumes about your character!

DannyM wrote: I don't think I was as clear as I could have been, but I'm glad we're on the same page brother!

Again, your to kind. Yes brother, we both are on the same page!

GOD Bless

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 is often used in argument against women ministering. My advice to those who think this is so is to look at 1 Corinthians 14:26-40 so you may grasp the point of Paul. Order in place of chitter chatter appears to be on Paul's agenda here.

If you still believe what you believe, then contrast this with

Romans 16:1-25

Some snippets,

"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me." Romans 16:1-2

Some manuscripts carry deaconess in place of servant. Shocking, eh?

"Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow-workers in Christ Jesus. They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them. Romans 16:3-4

Can anyone imagine Paul, in church with these wonderful women present, suddenly quiet on the issue of his gratefulness because he really wants women to remain totally quiet in the church? I think we can safely say that Paul revered the woman. And rightly so. His reverence was not out of any urge to patronise or to be seen as 'politically correct', an absurd saying that Paul would likely have scoffed at. His reverence was out of love and total respect for women.

"In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God" 1 Corinthians 11:11-12

Can I get an Amen!!?

And finally,

"I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people." Romans 16:17-18

cslewislover wrote: Anyway, why are you here??...as long as you're here to learn and participate in a meaningful and respectful way. You seem completely materialistic and unwilling to even try and understand the Bible, so, why are you here?

I am here because I want to be taught,
I may seem to be entirely materialistic but have you considered where I was born? Almost 85% of people in my country are secular, it is one of the most secular places on earth. Sure Sweden is a lovely place...A beautiful, prosperous and peaceful place, Just I am not peaceful and there is some feeling really ugly in side of me. My life is very boring, I am healthy and mentally agile and financially secure and my Job even though the hours are bad the work is not too difficult, I can manage that easily...But it is just so damn boring, almost not even worth living. So that is why I am here. Is that a bad reason?

To be almost perfectly honest, I am getting really depressed and it is affecting my life in a big way.

Kristoffer wrote:
I am here because I want to be taught,
I may seem to be entirely materialistic but ... I am not peaceful and there is some feeling really ugly in side of me. My life is very boring, I am healthy and mentally agile and financially secure and my Job even though the hours are bad the work is not too difficult, I can manage that easily...But it is just so damn boring, almost not even worth living. So that is why I am here. Is that a bad reason?

To be almost perfectly honest, I am getting really depressed and it is affecting my life in a big way.

The answer is to invite Christ to be in charge of your life. Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your heart. Now is the right time, now is the day of your salvation.*

If you ask any of the Christians here how it was for them before they accepted the Lord,they will probably say that things were OK and that they were happy enough. At least I was. But what was before is without comparison to what I have now: freedom, joy and fearlessness, and the knowledge of an everlasting future in heaven.

What are you waiting for? Come now,and let us reason together...**

FL

*Heb 3:7-8 and 2Cor 6:2
**Isa 1:18