Thank you BW. I was thinking on these scriptures myself, and obviously ran out of time. Had a board meeting.
Let me make it clear that I am specifically addressing the comments from Zoe to Kris. But, also a broader issue.
Let me rephrase and then I think we will all find the unity that God's Word demands. And we are commanded to find unity.
God will not hear a prayer not prayed in faith. (In another sense, this applies to the Christian as well.)
As you point out, BW, If someone comes to God sincerely, then they have in essence already yielded to a mind of belief. Remember we are talking specifically about prayer here, the prayer of someone who does not believe. Prayer is sacred. It is not to be thrown out as an experiment for a non-believer. Now, I would contend, that if, in a sinere heart, they beseech God, they are in essence, faithing. They are acting on the measure of faith they have at that moment in their life. Of course God will never reject anyone who comes to Him this way. "Whoever seeks me with their whole heart, will seek me and find me." That is a promise from God. Those who do seek this way, WILL find. It doesn't say, some. Why? Because sincere seeking is a pattern of growing belief. A pattern of one yielding one's will and mind to the truth that God has already revealed. Seeking is a response to the measure of faith within us. It is the difference between resisting and submitting. It is altogether nonsense to me, to say that a non-believer could pray, or even would pray. You know what a sincere seeker is? A convert. God's Word says it. Those who heart seek, WILL find.
The prayer, "God reveal yourself to me," says nothing in and of itself. it is the heart that matters. Depending on the heart, one person could pray this prayer, and it is nothing more than an attempt to selfishly fulfill a desire or prove a point. For another, this could be a sign of yielding one's mind to God, which is what? A sign of belief.
Anyone's story is a process. As one yields to faith, God reveals more. I'm sure every Christian can share this same testimony. Listen guys we all know the evidence. We know that God is real, that Jesus is Lord, and that the resurrection is a fact. We know it. We've responded affirmatively in faith to it. Before we knew that, we responded to those most basic things that God has made clear to everyone. The unbeliever has this same evidence. They reject it. They refuse to submit their will and mind to it. That person can not be heard by God. Not because God is limited, but because He refuses out of the very nature of His character. There is NO faith in them.
Zoe, your intitial challenge essentially said, what do you have to lose? This is exactly the question Kris, or any other skeptic has to ask. He has everything to lose, and Kris knows it. His entire worldview is at stake. He must ask, "What am I willing to lose?" One can not hold on to pride and self-soverignty and come to God in sincerity. The only alternative to sincerity is pride. And God resist the proud.
Zoe, you quoted Lewis, but only make my point.
I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed:
Notice the order of events. Evidence, belief, then prayer.
Zoe, I am not saying God doesn't pursue us. That couldn't be further from what I am saying. He is most certainly pursuing Kris.
Hey jlay, I don't know if GOD heard them or not.
Then, the rest of the explanation is not topical. Either you have evidence that God hears the unbeliever, or not. Apparently you were sighting Jonah as evidence that he does, yet you clearly state, "I don't know if God heard them or not."
how can you start a relationship with anyone, much less GOD, without conversation? I questioned GOD alot.....before I came to know Christ.
I would ask you, how could you question someone you didn't believe existed. God began a relationship with us before we were formed in the womb. So, you don't have to 'start' a relationship with God. In fact, God started it, and God finished it. All we can do is respond in faith. The prayer of faith will be heard. if you questioned God, whether you were angry, frustrated, etc. you were still coming to him. And you can't come to someone that you don't believe is real.
James 1:6
But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord;
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord
"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious