I don't belong.

[CeT-To]

Right. My concerns are purely personal, and thus I doubt I have been very impartial in coming from an emotional position. My sense of justice, of course, wishes me to be eternally conscious of past wrongs, and so eternally remorseful. But this cannot be the case in the new order. There can be no place for regret, that bane of the consciousness. So we are left with two possibilities: 1. Awareness of past misdeeds with no capacity for (the negative) regret; 2. The complete withdrawal of all past misdeeds from the conscioussness. Is everyone agreed thus far?

Hey Danny sorry for the late reply!

Can you explain the first one a bit more? i would like to understand and ponder on this subject too But as far as I know right now number 2 sounds like a pretty solid way of going about it.

Oh no need to thank me for the link hahah I'm glad that i could help you on your journey

God Bless!!

[DannyM]

Hey Zoe, Cet-To,

I will respond in full, but for now I'd just like to acknowledge that I have been thinking too hard on this. Some things we just can't answer. But we can try. Alas my desperation has disappeared.

Blessings to you both.

[DannyM]

Zoe,

Yes, I believe in Christ, who he is, what he did and what he said. I cannot use all this as some comfort blanket in return for such a drug-fuelled and wretched life. I really appreciate your words, J. I think I just need to continue being a better man to my loved ones, and try, in times of extreme anxiety, to trust that my faith will get me where I hope to be: in eternal love.

God Bless

Danny,

I'm sorry I haven't responded more. Believe me, I wish I could offer more than simple sympathy. IF there is one thing I have learned about resopnding to my own guilt, it's to take it to Christ. There is nothing that we can offer Him towards our salvation. HE gave Himself. He GAVE Himself. THis is not simply a comfort blanket....it's the reason we need Him. It's heart-wrenching to realize how much our sin grieves Him, it's also, however, what makes GRACE from Him so much sweeter. Your life, my life, our lives, are EXACTLY why we believe in Him. He has cleansed you. It's really that simple. And whatever guilt you feel now you must take to Him. Cry to Him, Praise Him, but the key words are "to Him". All of this guilt....have you ever thought that it might simply be a distraction from living in Him? If there is one thing Satan would like to do, it's to pull us away from Christ.

I don't think we can ever minimize this to a sort of comfort blanket (if indeed you truly believe). It's our salvation. To lessen it's importance cheapens His sacrifice. Christ did what He accomplished in YOUR life! He has reconciled you to Him. You have HIS righteousness and as awful as it sounds to us, He has borne our guilt and sin.

I will pray for you, but just go to HIm and praise HIm for that reconciliation. You are a new creation in Christ. Own it.

I've come to really appreciate this now. And I have grabbed at it with both hands. Nothing I do could be sufficient in contributing to my salvation. Nothing I do could wash away all the pain and hurt of the past. Only one 'thing' could possibly achieve all this...Yep, complete and unequivocal justification from God.

My sense of justice, of course, wishes me to be eternally conscious of past wrongs, and so eternally remorseful. But this cannot be the case in the new order. There can be no place for regret, that bane of the consciousness. So we are left with two possibilities: 1. Awareness of past misdeeds with no capacity for (the negative) regret; 2. The complete withdrawal of all past misdeeds from the conscioussness. Is everyone agreed thus far?

I would perhaps say that our past life/misdeeds should always bring us back to Christ, wherein we are brought to remember our new life, our new purpose and love. I don't think it has to be either 1 or 2. I don't know what it will be like in heaven, although I wonder if we will be so full of joy that we fulfill our purpose in the new earth and new creation. Can't imagine that all memories will be gone.

I still want to try to answer these questions, if only out of interest. But ultimately I have to trust that, whether it be 1 or 2 or something other, there will be no heartache whatsoever. So we merely speculate, which is good; and I will continue to do so without such urgency. Thank you for such a great post, Zoe.

[DannyM]

Right. My concerns are purely personal, and thus I doubt I have been very impartial in coming from an emotional position. My sense of justice, of course, wishes me to be eternally conscious of past wrongs, and so eternally remorseful. But this cannot be the case in the new order. There can be no place for regret, that bane of the consciousness. So we are left with two possibilities: 1. Awareness of past misdeeds with no capacity for (the negative) regret; 2. The complete withdrawal of all past misdeeds from the conscioussness. Is everyone agreed thus far?

Can you explain the first one a bit more? i would like to understand and ponder on this subject too But as far as I know right now number 2 sounds like a pretty solid way of going about it.

CeT-To,

What I mean by #1 is that, while we are aware of our past misdeeds - say, where we have wronged someone, surely, in heaven, we would not have the capacity for the sadness that would normally follow such thoughts or reminders or memories.

I'm torn between the two. And I'm still pretty sure that these are the only two possibilities.

Any thoughts?

[CeT-To]

Yes, i have heard of this one too! And you are right i also am torn between the two. For the second one i think it could be like for example a leg chopped off and the pain is so intense that every other sense is focused on the damage and pain, BUT it would be exact opposite where the joy would be so great that "we would not have the capacity for the sadness" and our focus would probably be all on God and the majesty around us. I guess you could sort of mix the 2 since by doing this it would be a massive distraction or loss of awareness of the past sins.

[DannyM]

Yes, i have heard of this one too! And you are right i also am torn between the two. For the second one i think it could be like for example a leg chopped off and the pain is so intense that every other sense is focused on the damage and pain, BUT it would be exact opposite where the joy would be so great that "we would not have the capacity for the sadness" and our focus would probably be all on God and the majesty around us. I guess you could sort of mix the 2 since by doing this it would be a massive distraction or loss of awareness of the past sins.

I see your point and it makes some sense. Awareness or non-awareness of the past could simply pale into insignificance as to practically melt away in light of the majesty of God all around us. This wouldn't be a complete 'withdrawal' from the consciousness as such, but it is indeed possible that the past, good and bad, would become an irrelevence.

[Victory444]

Danny, I just now joined this forum, and your thread is the one I was drawn to. I just don't feel like reading all that everyone has said here... I just want to tell you that I struggled for many years, trying to DO the Christian walk. Then I heard a sermon by Joseph Prince on GRACE, and I finally got it. It is so simple! We are not under the "law"...we are under GRACE...which basically means the work was done for us on Calvary, and the Lord promises to finish the work that HE started in us. We will stumble and we will fall along the way. The important thing is to simply repent, and keep on going. Just keep heading toward the finish line. You will do better and better as time goes on. Don't flog yourself if you can't do as well as you think you should, or as well as others think you should. God looks at your HEART, and your heart is right toward Him or you wouldn't be concerned about how you are doing. Look at what a mess David was, and the Lord said he was a man after His own heart. And look at it this way... If you did too well, satan wouldn't give you a moment's peace.
God bless you,
Victory444

[kevdog19]

no sadness or pain in heaven, then I definetly don't want to go there. Depression is a great part of what inspires me as an artists, I thrive on turning negatives into positives. An artists is supposed to experience and then express what others are curious about but to scared to experience. Hell sounds alot more interesting, and I'm not trying to ryle feathers but who wants to live in a world without evil, evil is inspiring.

[CeT-To]

no sadness or pain in heaven, then I definetly don't want to go there. Depression is a great part of what inspires me as an artists, I thrive on turning negatives into positives. An artists is supposed to experience and then express what others are curious about but to scared to experience. Hell sounds alot more interesting, and I'm not trying to ryle feathers but who wants to live in a world without evil, evil is inspiring.

Say that 'evil is inspiring' to all the people and kids who have been tortured, Raped, broken relationship, driven to suicide, watched their family die horrible deaths, oppressed by others, have been rendered disabled by others, buried alive etc etc. This is what you will experience in hell .. again and again and again, until the Lake of fire. What God offers is an eternal relationship with him the Ultimate happiness and goal of our lives ...

[kevdog19]

I'm saying that people learn from it and it allows us to express our will.

[CeT-To]

I'm saying that people learn from it and it allows us to express our will.

Yes thats true people do learn from evil. But lets be honest not everyone does, some people take pleasure in doing the wrong thing that harm others and oneself.

[Murray]

Life is the ultimate test designed by god

Faith is a large essay on this test, its a long, hard, and difficult but regardless we must finish it.
Now you will always experience breaks in your mind when you are "writting" your essay but you must remember your ultimate goal, to complete a good and solid essay. You will strugle, you will say what is the point, and you will wish to give up hope of ever finishing the essay.

To acheive this good and solid essay will take time, commintment, and most of all work. Sadly this essay takes all of your life, but the more you work at it,and the more thought you put into it the better you understand the purpose of it.

So although you feel disconnected, you are not, it is part of the test (the essay or "faith" part of it). You will feel connected if you keep working, but remember the "faith" essay is life long and you will always have struggle.

[DannyM]

Danny, I just now joined this forum, and your thread is the one I was drawn to. I just don't feel like reading all that everyone has said here... I just want to tell you that I struggled for many years, trying to DO the Christian walk. Then I heard a sermon by Joseph Prince on GRACE, and I finally got it. It is so simple! We are not under the "law"...we are under GRACE...which basically means the work was done for us on Calvary, and the Lord promises to finish the work that HE started in us. We will stumble and we will fall along the way. The important thing is to simply repent, and keep on going. Just keep heading toward the finish line. You will do better and better as time goes on. Don't flog yourself if you can't do as well as you think you should, or as well as others think you should. God looks at your HEART, and your heart is right toward Him or you wouldn't be concerned about how you are doing. Look at what a mess David was, and the Lord said he was a man after His own heart. And look at it this way... If you did too well, satan wouldn't give you a moment's peace.

I've just seen this and I’m sorry!

Then I heard a sermon by Joseph Prince on GRACE, and I finally got it. It is so simple! We are not under the "law"...we are under GRACE...which basically means the work was done for us on Calvary, and the Lord promises to finish the work that HE started in us.

Absolutely. I know this now. I had never believed in works-based salvation of any kind whether it be to gain or keep or gain and keep your salvation. I just had a hard time living with myself and all the ills I have done knowing that I’m forgiven. I’d always wanted retribution done to me. Wanted to do it to myself. So I was tearing myself to pieces and contemplating not wanting to be in heaven with God. But all is good now and I’m out of that self loathing nonsense. I’m not evil. I’ve done some terrible things and hurt those I love and loved. But I either rot in the guilt or just get on with the future and get back the self respect. Prayer has enabled all this. Coming to know God a little more has changed it all. A newfound understanding of God, and a vibrancy and love for him. Praise him for eternity.

We will stumble and we will fall along the way. The important thing is to simply repent, and keep on going. Just keep heading toward the finish line. You will do better and better as time goes on. Don't flog yourself if you can't do as well as you think you should, or as well as others think you should. God looks at your HEART, and your heart is right toward Him or you wouldn't be concerned about how you are doing.

It’s the grace! Realising God’s grace, the depths to which it reaches, the unadulterated love that drives it, well that’s just something else.

Thanks for your words there, Victory444.

God Bless

[kmr]

I don't know what it is, but suddenly I feel like rejoicing!

[SnowDrops]

I'm saying that people learn from it and it allows us to express our will.

We already have a lifetime to do that. We don't need that for eternity, since, after all, this life is the choice between right and wrong. That's why there is evil right now.