Evidence for God from Science

"These are principles we can use to reason an application. Whatever the prevailing custom, men and women should wear gender-appropriate clothing, dressing decently and in order (1 Corinthians 14:40). To apply the principles, the Bible calls cross-dressing or transvestitism a choice that is a demonstration of unbelief and rebellion against God and His order."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV
Err, I see no such reference in 1 Cor 14....point does not hold.

So where is your scripture that affirms that cross dressing or having a sex change is appropriate or of God? Also why all the talk about outside appearances? Shouldn't we be looking at things of the heart and not the outside appearances?

Yes, I meant to ask that; why is it that nearly everyone here is focusing entirely on outside appearance? If we're seen by God on our inside, then He'll care about our gender(if anything of gender or sex) and not care about sex <b>because it's just part of one's outside body</b>.

The Bible says we should love people... However, the Bible also talks about sin. Sorry to break the news to you..

You said you wanted money to rain whenever you prayed. That's just sinful greed. Love is one of them things listed as good in the Bible. ("God is love.")

The idea that people are born with both fully formed female or male functioning parts is a myth. Or if you could show me a person that could impregnate themselves with their own sperm, that has never been shown.. They might have parts but not fully functioning parts.

Where did this even come into discussion? Closest thing i found was my mention of intersex individuals who are born with both sets of genitalia, partially functioning.

This is a psychological problem and a spiritual one. While I understand how people can get hurt, everyone get's attacked in this life. But to internalize it and turn it into a perversion is a different story. Again, what matters is how God sees you and not your peers. Anyways, the focus needs to come off oneself and into God.

Never seen how it's a perversion.
And for one to say their gender is what it isn't would be lying. That's not very good in God's eyes, now is it?

Born infertile? Can a baby give birth to another child? Are you reading your own links? That is usually determined later through various tests even though there is the belief that it could be genetic. Also people who have been told that they are infertile have miraculously become pregnant.

For the love of God, stop trying to pick apart rhetoric. Rhetoric gets us nowhere. If you read the article, you'd see one can be born with a condition that makes hir unable to produce sex cells, ever. Also, miracles are not considered the norm.

What about 1 Cor 7:1? That just shows that sex is a choice.

Someone said God commands us to have children.
Really hard to do without having sex or being the virgin Mary. Well, today it isn't, but there were several hundred years of impossibility.

Like I was saying before... The suicide rates and many of these problems would go away if we put the focus on God and not ourselves.. We need to stop worrying what people think of us and start thinking what God thinks of us.

Surely you understand these things from experience and not just assuming things?

However, there's another problem with the line of reasoning. Say that you were correct and that men and women might not actually 'be' men and women (I still can't quite understand this, but we'll accept it for the sake of argument). What do you take the Biblical passages that speak of men and women exclusively to mean? Do they speak only of the physically male and female? The one's who think they should be the other gender? What, in fact, defines gender? Is there a percentage of femininity a man should have before they should be considered 'females' trapped in men's bodies? Is it okay then for homosexual behavior to take place? What if one man considers himself a woman? Doesn't Jesus, with the accepted premise, know that He's being ridiculous when He speaks harshly against that sort of behavior? After all, they're bodies might be male or female, but their feelings make them the opposite, and thus attracted the same way the opposite gender would be.

http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Gender_v_Sex may explain a bit. As would going to a TS forum and reading around.
I take Bible verses by gender, as God cares about the inside more than the outside.
Also, it's wrong to assume homosexuality(well, you're probably imagining heterosexuality but calling it homosexuality because of not accepting TS, but nonetheless) based on transsexuality. The two aren't tied together.

Did I say that? We are all subject to the laws of physics, in some cases, that is the way it goes in our physical world. Genetic accidents. What I'm talking about here is the person's sex. Being happy with your sex whether it's male or female.

For some their sex is something of a "defect".

I

don't think it's God's making either.. It's just the laws of physics in action, random genetic mistakes... There is no stopping it, however God can correct it if it is in His will. And NONE of us are genetically perfect. None..

So it's out there that the laws of physics and genetics apply?
Laws of genetics determine sex. Provably.

Human wrote:http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Gender_v_Sex may explain a bit. As would going to a TS forum and reading around.
I take Bible verses by gender, as God cares about the inside more than the outside.
Also, it's wrong to assume homosexuality(well, you're probably imagining heterosexuality but calling it homosexuality because of not accepting TS, but nonetheless) based on transsexuality. The two aren't tied together.

No, I don't accept "transexualism", sorry. I consider it a sign of a society that has too much time on its hands, actually. But I really don't understand how its wrong to assume homosexuality isn't related to transexuality. Are you suggesting that two men sleeping together aren't homosexuals if one of them is actually a 'female in a man's body'? Can you see how absurd that is? What in the world could the standard possibly be to determine who is what? What our feelings are? You never addressed your logic in trusting human emotions and feelings in light of the fact that our hearts are deceitful above all things. You didn't address hardly any of the points I made, and the response you did give was basically that there is a wiki that talks about it. I'm sure there's lots of websites that talk about it. Links to websites don't usually do much for me. Thought out responses do.

In light of your arguments that support transsexual behavior, however, I'd like to point out that there are implications that are pretty important. First, if 'who we really are' is based on our feelings and emotions, there are more severe consequences than being born in the 'wrong' body. To trust those things leads us to a point where no sin can ever be called sin. "If it feels, good do it" is a logical summary of the conclusions one can make from the premises you have hinted at in your posts. That isn't a Christian concept. It isn't even a very good secular concept. I conclude that this is your premise because you have said that people feel their gender is different than their sex, and yet that is something that is based entirely on feelings and emotion. Why are you so ready to trust that people's hearts are the best place to determine the truth?

Human wrote:http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Gender_v_Sex may explain a bit. As would going to a TS forum and reading around.
I take Bible verses by gender, as God cares about the inside more than the outside.
Also, it's wrong to assume homosexuality(well, you're probably imagining heterosexuality but calling it homosexuality because of not accepting TS, but nonetheless) based on transsexuality. The two aren't tied together.

No, I don't accept "transexualism", sorry. I consider it a sign of a society that has too much time on its hands, actually. But I really don't understand how its wrong to assume homosexuality isn't related to transexuality. Are you suggesting that two men sleeping together aren't homosexuals if one of them is actually a 'female in a man's body'? Can you see how absurd that is? What in the world could the standard possibly be to determine who is what? What our feelings are? You never addressed your logic in trusting human emotions and feelings in light of the fact that our hearts are deceitful above all things. You didn't address hardly any of the points I made, and the response you did give was basically that there is a wiki that talks about it. I'm sure there's lots of websites that talk about it. Links to websites don't usually do much for me. Thought out responses do.

In light of your arguments that support transsexual behavior, however, I'd like to point out that there are implications that are pretty important. First, if 'who we really are' is based on our feelings and emotions, there are more severe consequences than being born in the 'wrong' body. To trust those things leads us to a point where no sin can ever be called sin. "If it feels, good do it" is a logical summary of the conclusions one can make from the premises you have hinted at in your posts. That isn't a Christian concept. It isn't even a very good secular concept. I conclude that this is your premise because you have said that people feel their gender is different than their sex, and yet that is something that is based entirely on feelings and emotion. Why are you so ready to trust that people's hearts are the best place to determine the truth?

Human wrote: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV
Err, I see no such reference in 1 Cor 14....point does not hold.

In the context of order... 1 Corinthians 14:40 points to an orderly way to worship.

Human wrote:Yes, I meant to ask that; why is it that nearly everyone here is focusing entirely on outside appearance?

We aren't.. The question here however is why would someone who is a man want to dress as a woman or visa versa? Obviously it seems that person is consumed with appearance..

Human wrote:If we're seen by God on our inside, then He'll care about our gender(if anything of gender or sex) and not care about sex <b>because it's just part of one's outside body</b>.

And yet God is disappointed when we commit homosexual acts... Leviticus 18:22 It just doesn't work that way.

Human wrote:You said you wanted money to rain whenever you prayed. That's just sinful greed. Love is one of them things listed as good in the Bible. ("God is love.")

Of course that is sinful to pray for money... You missed my point. It's just as sinful when someone takes something from God, like their gender, and twists or perverts it for their own purposes..

Human wrote:Where did this even come into discussion? Closest thing i found was my mention of intersex individuals who are born with both sets of genitalia, partially functioning.

As the evidence showed, it wasn't both male/female parts working (that is for procreation). It was either one or the other.

Human wrote:Never seen how it's a perversion.
And for one to say their gender is what it isn't would be lying. That's not very good in God's eyes, now is it?

Like homosexuality? That is a perversion..

Human wrote:For the love of God, stop trying to pick apart rhetoric. Rhetoric gets us nowhere.

Yes then please stop your rhetoric..

Human wrote:If you read the article, you'd see one can be born with a condition that makes hir unable to produce sex cells, ever. Also, miracles are not considered the norm.

No it doesn't.. There are certain assumptions, but nothing conclusive in the article.

Human wrote:Someone said God commands us to have children.
Really hard to do without having sex or being the virgin Mary. Well, today it isn't, but there were several hundred years of impossibility.

Yes God desires children, but if you aren't going to have children then sex should be "off limits" to you too.. Deuteronomy 5:18 1 Corinthians 6:18

Human wrote:Surely you understand these things from experience and not just assuming things?

Yes... I actually understand these things.

Human wrote:I take Bible verses by gender, as God cares about the inside more than the outside.
Also, it's wrong to assume homosexuality(well, you're probably imagining heterosexuality but calling it homosexuality because of not accepting TS, but nonetheless) based on transsexuality. The two aren't tied together.

So prove it using the Bible...

Human wrote:For some their sex is something of a "defect".

Very very low percentages.. And those that do, they only have a few defective parts. By their "functioning" parts they could still be considered male or female.

Now if you could literally prove that there was a person born without either sex (male or female), then you might have an argument there. In that case, the person could "choose" their sex.. But not otherwise.

Again... As I've stated before. I'm not God.

Human wrote:So it's out there that the laws of physics and genetics apply?
Laws of genetics determine sex. Provably.

And those same laws will determine if we are male or female.. And who created the laws of physics?

Gman wrote:Yes... That is the YEC belief that man sinned (at the fall) and ever since then everything became genetically altered.. I don't buy that belief. But the point is that we should be happy or content with God and ourselves whatever the circumstances.. Philippians 4:11

That's now opposite from what you wrote above;

Gman wrote:Why can't I just be happy the way God made me?

Again I would stress that they stop the hormones and be happy the way God created you in the first place... Whatever parts that remain or not.

Be happy with your lot in life...but don't make God out as the designer of your lot. It is evil/sin that has made you imperfect, whatever that imperfection may be. BTW, I am no YEC.
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BavarianWheels wrote:

Gman wrote:Yes... That is the YEC belief that man sinned (at the fall) and ever since then everything became genetically altered.. I don't buy that belief. But the point is that we should be happy or content with God and ourselves whatever the circumstances.. Philippians 4:11

That's now opposite from what you wrote above;

Not at all.. I'll explain below..

BavarianWheels wrote:Be happy with your lot in life...but don't make God out as the designer of your lot.

No.. Because God is the author of the laws of physics..

BavarianWheels wrote:It is evil/sin that has made you imperfect, whatever that imperfection may be. BTW, I am no YEC.
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The YEC belief is that when Adam sinned, all of creation became genetically altered. So yes, you are buying into that belief.. And I don't buy into the belief that evil/sin made my body imperfect.. It made my soul imperfect but not my body..

As I have explained before natural evils are responsible for the genetic problems we face today. Not sin, and God setup the laws of physics that generate life. However, those laws of physics can go awry sometimes and cause genetic problems but not to the extent where it nullifies the physically created order of man and woman. Spiritually, however, it makes no difference.. Male and females are EQUALS under God, Galatians 3:28. So why all the fuss if it doesn't make any difference anyway? Sin...

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... ering.html

I'll even say this... God, is not male nor female. He is BOTH sexes Genesis 1:27....In fact the Bible gives us descriptions of God having both male and female parts.. But that still doesn't mean that we dispose of His created order either.

That is my take on it...

And if you think my views are conservative or that I hate gays, cross dressers, or something, you are wrong.. Also I believe I'm the only member of this forum that is a registered Democrat..

But I still see order in chaos.. I'll never budge from that..

Hi my name is Jami and i do realise i am new here but this topic is very important and personal to me.
See i struggled with this boy girl who am i for over 30 years. I aloud the beliefs of others control me and i suffered for way too long.

This brings me to why i am writing in this thread dealing with being trannsexual or intersex and being in Right Standing with God !!

Believe me when I say that the day God showed up and began to deal with this issue within me He turned me inside out and back again and He STARTED this by allowing me to know that He knew jami as well as the old name i had and that He Loved Jami and it was ok !!

Wow imagine the very God who i felt shame before because of what i was taught was now here in my room loving me and letting me know it is ok !!
Now if that dont mess up your thinken nothing will !!

In order to keep this as short as I can i am going to speak only on what i have been lead to share for many years and keep that short as well !

First off lets understand Gods heart,
He gave His only begotten son
Unto WHO SO EVER shall believe
if this who so ever calls out unto Him then THEY shall be saved and have eternal life with Him !!

We are all who so evers and we all can be saved AND its Gods place to change a person and our part is to plant and water. A person will not change until God does a work in them and then they will desire to change.

There has been some good advice given and some very UnEducated guessing and beliefs and these can truly hurt and desteroy one.

Did you know there is a thing called the 50/50 rule with transsexuals? See 50 percent of them will take thier own life before the age of 30. Now that is a waste of Gods creation or children or human beings. So know that just as the truth shall set you free, uneducated beliefs and traditions will set one captive and in bondage and destroy.

One is born Trannsexual or intersexed and it is not a desiese or syndrom for those can be cured by man !!
You DONT choose to be transsexual nore can you catch it or become one by taking hormones or having srs sexual reasignment surgery.

People are born with all sorts of problems such as heart or sugar or seizures etc. Stuff happens in the womb and thats the way things are.
Being transsexual is no different and there are many papers written by the top leading medical comunities all through out this world showing or giving evidence that a transsexual is born this way.

I wont go into all this research here but if you are interested then email and i will forward many urls to these sites.

Ok now then to answer the question what happens to a person who is in transition or post op (had srs) !!

Dont run from God for He loves you dearly just as you are. He knew you would transsition and He never stopped loving you.

Be who God created You to be and NOT what others say you need to be.
Its not what is or was between your legs that makes you who you are but who you are is within YOU !!

Now then in todays society any one who persued this issue and transsitioned SHOULD HAVE COUNTED ALL COST of transsioning.

We can and many do loose thier families and friends and jobs and apartments etc. The church in many cases shun you but ya know they shun Jesus to so you are in good company.

Seek God with all your heart and follow the foot prints He has laid out before you and allow Him to direct your path and you will stay in Right standing with God.

As i said earlier He turned me inside out and back again and He dealt with what He wanted to when He wanted to and How He wanted to and I laid jami the girl at the alter not knowing if i would ever see her or be her again but for me, it was Gods will or nothing.
When it was all said and done I knew who I was and I wAs NO longer ashamed of who I am or who i have become for I am His and I am Jami

I know this is long and all over the place but i did keep it short and only touched on a few points.
Thank You for reading and have a wonderful day !!
In His Grip
Love and Hugs
Jami

You might want to take a look at this article..

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/ ... ality.html

Or the Bible... Which if we understand it, we have to give up the lust of the flesh.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it [is] confusion.
24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

Note: We see the warning given in Leviticus 18:24 and as we can see in the following passage, Israel did not heed the warning given

1Kings 14:22 And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done.
23 For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree.
24 And there were also sodomites in the land: [and] they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
18 Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.

06945 qadesh {kaw-dashe'} from 06942; n m
AV - sodomite 5, unclean 1; 6
1) male temple prostitute

1Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1Cor 6:9 <2228> Know ye <1492> (5758) not <3756> that <3754> the unrighteous <94> shall <2816> (0) not <3756> inherit <2816> (5692) the kingdom <932> of God <2316>? Be <4105> (0) not <3361> deceived <4105> (5744): neither <3777> fornicators <4205>, nor <3777> idolaters <1496>, nor <3777> adulterers <3432>, nor <3777> effeminate <3120>, nor <3777> abusers of themselves with mankind <733>,

3120 malakos {mal-ak-os'} of uncertain affinity; adj
AV - soft 3, effeminate 1; 4
1) soft, soft to the touch
2) metaph. in a bad sense
2a) effeminate
2a1) of a catamite
2a2) of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
2a3) of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
2a4) of a male prostitute

1Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord [is].
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

2Tim 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Thank You for sharing all the scriptures and they are all wonderful words to live by.
The problem is that you can not just take every scripture you feel applies to something and expect it to be the wisdom of God cut and dry.

When you pull scriptures from the old testament you need to do a very deep research in both greek and hebrew to truly understand what is being said.

Translations over the years have lost the true meaning in many cases and how we view the meaning of words today is not the view of the words when they were written.

effeminate men (sp) sorry please forgive my spelling for i am on my phone and cant look up the propper spelling.
any way how we view this word is not quite in the manner it was written.

It was speaking to men who acted like a casanova type who were servants of the woman in which would use thier wiles and ways and suduce these woman and get thier way sexually.
Befor you laugh me out please research this.

How about a man shall not put on womens clothes? again when this was written it was concerning a tatic some armies were doing. It seems they would dress like woman and march right into the enemies camp and find that the enemy had no clue and prepared not for battle and were slaughtered......again research this out.

How about a man shall not cover his head in worship or wear long hair?
What about these? What is God saying here?

The old law has been destroyed and a new testament was born thanks to our Lord Jesus thee Christ who destroyed all this as He once and for all finished the way unto God and not be seperated.

If you push even one of the old laws as to judge ones life sin or guilty of sin or wrong doing then YOU yourself better be living by all the laws and your life better be found breaking not one law for you will be judged by that very law.

The biggest problem in this topic is the lack of understanding of the issue at hand transsexuals or intersexed who have transitioned and then become christians.

Your own views and beliefs and lack of understanding about what a transsexual really is VERY much clouds your minds and heart and you use Gods word to back your views.

Please grasp one thing, i am not jumping on you or any one and i mean NO disrespect what so ever with you.
I am not judging you or any one and I love you in Christ with all of my heart.

obtw i sure am not saying I am right and i am all knowledge on this. Brother i am NOT that stupid !! lol

Peace be unto you and your family and i look forward to talking wth you or any one. Please forgive me if anything i said upset you or caused you any ill feelings for that is not in my heart to do. I mean no disrespect at all.

one last thing please, I challenge you to truly do an honest study on what a true transsexual is and what causes this to take place and it does take place in the womb as we are all concieved female and many weeks into this things are susposed to happen inwhich hormones are released and this was intended on lining up the brain and genitals in the same male or female. Some times this does not happen correctly either to much of one or not enough of the other is sent.
We are talking about estrogen and testosteri

One area in the brain that (controlls gender) is the B.S.T region. Ever learn about this? You should for you will learn that the genitals dont make you male or female and God is ALL KNOWING and Would not condem one for being born in this manner BUT man in his lack of understanding will condem anything that they cant reason out or control or does not line up with thier thinking.

Let me ask this one queston please, does the word of God truly say a gay will not enter HEAVEN ? I just want to hear your thoughts on this.

Again i mean no disrespect what so ever and i hope and pray we can continue to discuss this. I value your input for i know this is how we learn.

Have A wonderful blessed day and look forward to hearing from you again
In His Grip
Love His lil Jami

His lil warrior girl wrote:Thank You for sharing all the scriptures and they are all wonderful words to live by.
The problem is that you can not just take every scripture you feel applies to something and expect it to be the wisdom of God cut and dry.

When you pull scriptures from the old testament you need to do a very deep research in both greek and hebrew to truly understand what is being said.

Translations over the years have lost the true meaning in many cases and how we view the meaning of words today is not the view of the words when they were written.

effeminate men (sp) sorry please forgive my spelling for i am on my phone and cant look up the propper spelling.
any way how we view this word is not quite in the manner it was written.

It was speaking to men who acted like a casanova type who were servants of the woman in which would use thier wiles and ways and suduce these woman and get thier way sexually.
Befor you laugh me out please research this.

If you want to rewrite the Bible the choice is yours...

How about a man shall not put on womens clothes? again when this was written it was concerning a tatic some armies were doing. It seems they would dress like woman and march right into the enemies camp and find that the enemy had no clue and prepared not for battle and were slaughtered......again research this out.

How about a man shall not cover his head in worship or wear long hair?
What about these? What is God saying here?

The old law has been destroyed and a new testament was born thanks to our Lord Jesus thee Christ who destroyed all this as He once and for all finished the way unto God and not be seperated.

That is baloney... God is a God of order. Not chaos.. 1 Corinthians 14:40. And it is still written Romans 1:26-27, Jude 1:7, 1 Timothy 1:9-10, 1Corinthians 6:9 .

And not just the Bible either... The Book of Jasher describes homosexual gang rape in the ancient times..

Book of Jasher, Chapter 19

1 And the cities of Sodom had four judges to four cities, and these were their names, Serak in the city of Sodom, Sharkad in Gomorrah, Zabnac in Admah, and Menon in Zeboyim.

2 And Eliezer Abraham's servant applied to them different names, and he converted Serak to Shakra, Sharkad to Shakrura, Zebnac to Kezobim, and Menon to Matzlodin.

3 And by desire of their four judges the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had beds erected in the streets of the cities, and if a man came to these places they laid hold of him and brought him to one of their beds, and by force made him to lie in them.

4 And as he lay down, three men would stand at his head and three at his feet, and measure him by the length of the bed, and if the man was less than the bed these six men would stretch him at each end, and when he cried out to them they would not answer him.

5 And if he was longer than the bed they would draw together the two sides of the bed at each end, until the man had reached the gates of death.

6 And if he continued to cry out to them, they would answer him, saying, Thus shall it be done to a man that cometh into our land.

7 And when men heard all these things that the people of the cities of Sodom did, they refrained from coming there.

8 And when a poor man came to their land they would give him silver and gold, and cause a proclamation in the whole city not to give him a morsel of bread to eat, and if the stranger should remain there some days, and die from hunger, not having been able to obtain a morsel of bread, then at his death all the people of the city would come and take their silver and gold which they had given to him.

9 And those that could recognize the silver or gold which they had given him took it back, and at his death they also stripped him of his garments, and they would fight about them, and he that prevailed over his neighbor took them.

10 They would after that carry him and bury him under some of the shrubs in the deserts; so they did all the days to any one that came to them and died in their land.

11 And in the course of time Sarah sent Eliezer to Sodom, to see Lot and inquire after his welfare.

12 And Eliezer went to Sodom, and he met a man of Sodom fighting with a stranger, and the man of Sodom stripped the poor man of all his clothes and went away.

13 And this poor man cried to Eliezer and supplicated his favor on account of what the man of Sodom had done to him.

14 And he said to him, Why dost thou act thus to the poor man who came to thy land?

His lil warrior girl wrote:If you push even one of the old laws as to judge ones life sin or guilty of sin or wrong doing then YOU yourself better be living by all the laws and your life better be found breaking not one law for you will be judged by that very law.

That doesn't mean that we abolish the law however. Even though we can't follow the law.. You are taking it to extremes..

His lil warrior girl wrote:The biggest problem in this topic is the lack of understanding of the issue at hand transsexuals or intersexed who have transitioned and then become christians.

Your own views and beliefs and lack of understanding about what a transsexual really is VERY much clouds your minds and heart and you use Gods word to back your views.

Please grasp one thing, i am not jumping on you or any one and i mean NO disrespect what so ever with you.
I am not judging you or any one and I love you in Christ with all of my heart.

I'm not judging you either or transsexuals..

His lil warrior girl wrote:obtw i sure am not saying I am right and i am all knowledge on this. Brother i am NOT that stupid !! lol

Peace be unto you and your family and i look forward to talking wth you or any one. Please forgive me if anything i said upset you or caused you any ill feelings for that is not in my heart to do. I mean no disrespect at all.

one last thing please, I challenge you to truly do an honest study on what a true transsexual is and what causes this to take place and it does take place in the womb as we are all concieved female and many weeks into this things are susposed to happen inwhich hormones are released and this was intended on lining up the brain and genitals in the same male or female. Some times this does not happen correctly either to much of one or not enough of the other is sent.
We are talking about estrogen and testosteri

One area in the brain that (controlls gender) is the B.S.T region. Ever learn about this? You should for you will learn that the genitals dont make you male or female and God is ALL KNOWING and Would not condem one for being born in this manner BUT man in his lack of understanding will condem anything that they cant reason out or control or does not line up with thier thinking.

You might want to read this article on that..

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/ ... ality.html

His lil warrior girl wrote:Let me ask this one queston please, does the word of God truly say a gay will not enter HEAVEN ? I just want to hear your thoughts on this.

Again i mean no disrespect what so ever and i hope and pray we can continue to discuss this. I value your input for i know this is how we learn.

Have A wonderful blessed day and look forward to hearing from you again
In His Grip
Love His lil Jami

I don't speak for God directly so I can't say.. But it doesn't look good imo.. But we can see from the Bible that sexual immorality can be stopped and that people can truly be changed by the washing blood of Christ. It is possible to reverse this. With the help of God of course..

1Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

For what it's worth, just to add a thought here, I don't think God views the sin of homosexual behavior any more harshly than any other sin. Anyone who comes to God and eternity with Him will do so on the same basis I do, which is as a sinner saved by God's grace.

Scripture I believe makes a distinction between heaven and the "kingdom of God." The kingdom of God, I believe speaks of things related to our walk after we are saved and the new order of things that Christ will establish when he returns. I believe our salvation is neither earned nor maintained by works.

For my part, I believe God loves people who are gay and because he does, I do too. I'm most concerned with a person, any person, coming to know Christ and the power of His love than I am with trying to change people or cleaning them up outside of that. I'm convinced that anyone who comes to Christ will begin a process of change and that that change will be an "inside job" that will be far more effective than any attempts on my part to say which sins are somehow better or worse than others.

I'm not afraid to look at the passages in scripture in the OT and NT that deal with these things. I affirm them. I don't believe in trying though to make more of it in the context of God's love and Christ's grace to in any way make me feel better than or superior to anyone else because I don't have the same problem that they do. I'll confess here as a matter of fact, that I now weigh over 300 pounds and I have a problem with eating that contributes to it. The scripture calls it gluttony. I'm glad that doesn't diminish God's love for me or make me any less saved. My task now is to allow God to work in me to bring about the change in my behavior and not overeat. It's a struggle and I'm not winning it. I have other issues in my life too.

So, let me encourage any who participate in this discussion to balance whatever issues you want to focus upon, not by lessening what sinful acts and behaviors are, but rather stepping back and looking at ourselves and resisting the temptation to condemn more vigorously those issues that are not ours while minimizing our own issues, and all of us have them, it's just a matter of degree and as we know, God doesn't grade on the curve when it comes to the seriousness of sin.

Hope this makes sense. For my part, I don't speak for God either, but looking at the counsel of His entire revelation through Christ, I believe we should look to be more gentle with one another and encourage and exhort one another to know Him better and allow Him to do His work without adding our judgement and condemnation where it doesn't reflect how we've come to Christ.

I don't think anyone here are gay bashers... I'm certainly not. If anyone has that impression I do sincerely apologize.

But I do see homosexuality as a sin like the other sexual sins... We have to be very careful with this stuff and how we interpret scripture. Very careful...

As for sin... You don't even want to know how many sins I've committed against God. Really BAD ones too... I'm lucky to be alive.

Canuckster1127 wrote: I'm not afraid to look at the passages in scripture in the OT and NT that deal with these things. I affirm them. I don't believe in trying though to make more of it in the context of God's love and Christ's grace to in any way make me feel better than or superior to anyone else because I don't have the same problem that they do. I'll confess here as a matter of fact, that I now weigh over 300 pounds and I have a problem with eating that contributes to it. The scripture calls it gluttony. I'm glad that doesn't diminish God's love for me or make me any less saved. My task now is to allow God to work in me to bring about the change in my behavior and not overeat. It's a struggle and I'm not winning it. I have other issues in my life too.
.

Bart really?

Hey.. I was at 240 not long ago and have lost 50 pounds recently. But I had to totally change my diet. No more chips, soda, pizza, etc... Actually exercise didn't help much, it was my diet that as killing me. Have you read the book, "The Maker's Diet" yet? It is chuck full of biblical diets that have helped me greatly. From the horses mouth so to speak (God).



I'll be praying for you. I have much more energy now, and sleep way better too...

I know you are tall, so maybe it's not that bad..

Yes. In my defense, I'm 6' 5" but that's a pretty weak defense. I was 185 lbs when I got married. I have some physical reasons I can offer as an excuse in the aftermath of cancer surgery when I was 23 which impacts my metabolism. But in the end, I'm without excuse. My eating habits are terrible and I am killing myself with the way I am treating my body. I'll look at the book you suggest. I've heard of it and I have to do something. God loves me unconditionally, but I'm not honoring Him by my lack of control and unwillingness to change in this area. I'm not proud of that.