FearlessLlearsy wrote:Paul, you are at the end of the day just stubborn. Trying to justify our sins is not, and will never get us anywhere.
Canuckster1127 wrote:
I like what Bill Engvall said about this. Getting married just so you can have sex, is like buying an airline so you can get the packets of free peanuts.
That is not even the issue. People who get married just to have sex.... is just pathetic. We are debating wether or not pre-marital sex is alright, under any condition.
Using foolish analogies and relating them to serious matters only helps but to reinforce the veil of blindness put on your face on the issue.
I repeat. SIN under any condition is
WRONG. There is no bifurcation to it. It does not matter if I had sex with my dear gf, or a girl i met at a party. Both are the same thing: Pre-Marital sex. God is so clear on Pre-Marital sex, and yet you try to fit religion to adhere with the sinful pleasures of the world. Basically, you are saying, if the conditions are right, its ok. Then tell me, what other sins can one do if the conditions are right?
The best you can do at this point, is to not lead other, younger youths astray from the right path, for that would be selfish and deadly.
Stubborn? perhaps, I don't doubt it at all
See, I have in my family quite a variety of belief systems, from Atheist to Jehovah's Witnesses and almost everything in between.
My perspective on things is probably quite different than yours or others.
As an example, last year I went to a JW wedding of two young people, she was 20 and he was 22, that were getting married because, well, they pretty much "had to" if they wanted to be "together". The certainly loved each other but it was quite clear the main reason for getting married NOW was to be together.
But lets put all that aside for now.
I have a cousin who is Jewish, by marriage and we get along quite well and his uncle being a orthodox rabbi and he himself working for the Jewish Research Center ( History department), we discuss religion and the OT quite a bit.
The notion of pre-marital sex has come up ( both of us have daughters) and once we had the discussion with his Orthodox Rabbi uncle and even the uncle said that because the OT laws were a bit vague on the matter, rabbinic law ( or what later became know as rabbinc law, made it more explicit).
Of course marriage as was know in the OT days was not the same as now, the "insitutuion" of marriage was quite different as we know it now.
All that said, it was pretty much a given that the Woman was to be a virgin for her marriage and marriages as such a young age pretty much guaranteed that.
I know you are making it about SIN, period, but while that simple view point may work for Christians ( some), it doesn't work for ALL and it cna be agrued that it may not even be what is in the best interest for people NOWADAYS, for a mirad of reasons.
Personally my little ones are to young to learn about this now ( 4 and
but as soon as they are old enough I will express to them, as best I can, why I feel they should wait for marriage to be intimate with someone and I will exress it in terms of the bible (being a christian) but also in terms OUTSIDE the bible.
To think that simply telling someone it is a SIN is enough, well...maybe it's the people I know and maybe they are all "bad people" but that just wouldn't be "god enough".
Back to the issue at hand and as you stated:
We are debating wether or not pre-marital sex is alright, under any condition.
Well then, you are stating that it is NOT right, under ANY conditions, correct?
So I ask, under what conditions IS sex alright? marriage only?
Marriage under God?
Which God and which religion?
Civil marriage not under God?
).