Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
DannyM wrote:Anyone claiming faith to be an enemy of reason is making a statement which cannot be justified using reason and so the very statement is a faith statement!
Yes another evidence of subconscious faith at work.
Even such subconscious faith is based on humanness and not on God’s initiative. Therefore, you have a road sign or the means in which to determine the correct course back to God: Faith, human way back or God’s way back… Reason is engaged here awakening what one truly places faith in. Interesting…
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
B. W. wrote:Even such subconscious faith is based on humanness and not on God’s initiative. Therefore, you have a road sign or the means in which to determine the correct course back to God: Faith, human way back or God’s way back… Reason is engaged here awakening what one truly places faith in. Interesting…
Yes. Saying faith is the enemy of reason seems to me to be an unreasonable statement. After all, you must have some faith IN reason in order to trust your reasoning. In order to start with reasoning you must have some level of faith in that reasoning. To deny it is simply dishonest.
DannyM wrote:...Yes. Saying faith is the enemy of reason seems to me to be an unreasonable statement. After all, you must have some faith IN reason in order to trust your reasoning. In order to start with reasoning you must have some level of faith in that reasoning. To deny it is simply dishonest.
So you have The Law of Contradiction (nothing that is true can be self-contradictory or inconsistent with any other truth) is at work here, proving that there is a subconscious element to faith; thus, human beings are by nature creatures of faith. Note Link on The Law of Contradiction: http://www.philosophyetc.net/2005/05/la ... ction.html
So it would stand to reason that God would engage what is inside us - faith - in order to see who will or who will not respond to his initiatives.
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
B. W. wrote:So you have The Law of Contradiction (nothing that is true can be self-contradictory or inconsistent with any other truth) is at work here, proving that there is a subconscious element to faith; thus, human beings are by nature creatures of faith. Note Link on The Law of Contradiction: http://www.philosophyetc.net/2005/05/la ... ction.html
So it would stand to reason that God would engage what is inside us - faith - in order to see who will or who will not respond to his initiatives.
Brilliant!
Great link too.
<edit>
B.W. your link has changed from what I saw last night…?
B. W. wrote:
So you have The Law of Contradiction (nothing that is true can be self-contradictory or inconsistent with any other truth) is at work here, proving that there is a subconscious element to faith; thus, human beings are by nature creatures of faith. Note Link on The Law of Contradiction: http://www.philosophyetc.net/2005/05/la ... ction.html
So it would stand to reason that God would engage what is inside us - faith - in order to see who will or who will not respond to his initiatives.
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HAHAH that link was hilarious!
Tbh when i consciously realised the Law of Non-contradiction - it's one of the things that amazes me to no end! Praise the Logos Jesus!
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16
B. W. wrote:So you have The Law of Contradiction (nothing that is true can be self-contradictory or inconsistent with any other truth) is at work here, proving that there is a subconscious element to faith; thus, human beings are by nature creatures of faith. Note Link on The Law of Contradiction: http://www.philosophyetc.net/2005/05/la ... ction.html
So it would stand to reason that God would engage what is inside us - faith - in order to see who will or who will not respond to his initiatives.
Brilliant!
Great link too.
<edit>
B.W. your link has changed from what I saw last night…?
Thanks, B.W. There’s a topic in that link, i.e. all faiths can’t be equal.
But I’ve been reading some of Bahnsen on Van Til, and while it might not be entirely relevant to the thread, thought I'd add it anyway. Hope you don't mind:
To be sure, all men have faith. Unbelievers have faith as well as believers. But that is due to the fact that they too are creatures of God. Faith therefore always has content. It is against the content of faith as belief in God that man has become an unbeliever. As such he tries to suppress the content of his original faith.... And thus there is no foundation for man's knowledge of himself or of the world at all.... When this faith turns into unbelief this unbelief cannot succeed in suppressing fully the original faith in God. Man as man is inherently and inescapably a believer in God. Thus he can contribute to true knowledge in the universe.
DannyM wrote:Thanks, B.W. There’s a topic in that link, i.e. all faiths can’t be equal.
But I’ve been reading some of Bahnsen on Van Til, and while it might not be entirely relevant to the thread, thought I'd add it anyway. Hope you don't mind:
To be sure, all men have faith. Unbelievers have faith as well as believers. But that is due to the fact that they too are creatures of God. Faith therefore always has content. It is against the content of faith as belief in God that man has become an unbeliever. As such he tries to suppress the content of his original faith.... And thus there is no foundation for man's knowledge of himself or of the world at all.... When this faith turns into unbelief this unbelief cannot succeed in suppressing fully the original faith in God. Man as man is inherently and inescapably a believer in God. Thus he can contribute to true knowledge in the universe.
Scroll down to this linked: The Crucial Concept of Self-Deception in Presuppositional Apologetics
I’m going to put this up in the Presuppositional thread
Nice read...
So if God designed human beings to be creatures of faith - then would not that be the means needed to restore a broken relationship? Faith building??
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
B. W. wrote:[Nice read...
So if God designed human beings to be creatures of faith - then would not that be the means needed to restore a broken relationship? Faith building??
Possibly. I think it could certainly be the basis for restoring that broken relationship. But while you and I can see this, stubborn, autonomous man has no interest in seeing it. Not just yet, anyway
B. W. wrote:[Nice read...
So if God designed human beings to be creatures of faith - then would not that be the means needed to restore a broken relationship? Faith building??
Possibly. I think it could certainly be the basis for restoring that broken relationship. But while you and I can see this, stubborn, autonomous man has no interest in seeing it. Not just yet, anyway
So would you say that Grace - God's Grace - is the means used to reawaken latent Faith in stubborn, autonomous man?
Providing a choice in which desides where one places her/his faith in - which would prove God as being absolutely just as well as demonstrating impartial fairness that honors where and what one places hisher faith in?
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
B. W. wrote:So would you say that Grace - God's Grace - is the means used to reawaken latent Faith in stubborn, autonomous man?
Providing a choice in which desides where one places her/his faith in - which would prove God as being absolutely just as well as demonstrating impartial fairness that honors where and what one places hisher faith in?
This must be the case, since man can not come to God purely of his own volition.
I think by definition God is just. To be unjust would contradict His very nature, don't you think?
B. W. wrote:So would you say that Grace - God's Grace - is the means used to reawaken latent Faith in stubborn, autonomous man?
Providing a choice in which desides where one places her/his faith in - which would prove God as being absolutely just as well as demonstrating impartial fairness that honors where and what one places hisher faith in?
This must be the case, since man can not come to God purely of his own volition.
I think by definition God is just. To be unjust would contradict His very nature, don't you think?
Yes I do ... the bible reveals that God is just and his justice goes way beyond or ideas of justice - God is Just to all...
What other aspects of God's Justice you would like to discuss?
...and also sorry for the delay on the post Danny!
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)
Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys
that link was hilarious!