Homosexuality is not a sin

[jlay]

Most homosexuals are not taking advantage of marriage where it is legalized. The reason they want it is to normalize their lifestyle and force society, by penalty of law, to say it is so.

[CallMeDave]

Hello, first I would like to introduce myself as I have just joined this forum. I am relatively new in faith, and I used to be an atheist. But, I found my reasons for being an atheist lied more in the fact of my utter disagreements with religion and it's claims, than with the actual belief in God. And to be honest, in this Postmodernist society, it seems more kids my age lack the belief in God and Jesus and deem it as "uncool".

But now, to the point. Homosexuality is not a sin, it is not a choice, and it is not a sickness or disease. Whomever so thinks any of the aforementioned are the case, then they would be wrong. Not only are they wrong, but I daresay they are not true followers of God. To be completely honest, I believe that not everything in the Bible is innately correct, or meant to be taken literally. After all, it was written by the hand of man, and man is inherently evil.

Now, this has been a question of mine for as long as I can remember. If one is truly a person of God, then why do they blatantly discriminate and harm other human beings whom are homosexual? It even seems to get to the point of hate, which is not what a person of God should be doing. Think really deeply about it, being homosexual is not a choice, and if you believe so then you are an ignorant person. Why would someone choose to be homosexual, knowing that others will surely attack them for it? No, it is not a choice, but a natural phenomenon within nature. So now, I ask why some of you may think that homosexuality is bad, I am eager for reasons.

As you grow in your Christian Faith and Walk , read the Bible diligently, and obtain wisdom and discernment from God as part of his sanctifying work in your life.....you will eventually come to see that Homosexuality is not only a lifestyle of sin , but it is a gross perversion of love / extremely dangerous to the Players as well as society as a whole with the STD epidemic / and an addiction to secure emotional love from the same sex *usually from a childhood emotional imbalance between child and the same sex Parent. As you grow in your love for The Lord who saved you from your many sins, you will become more sensitive and aware of lifestyles which many call 'acceptable, optional, and an alternative' and the deciet which goes along with them. Im glad you exited atheism as I did the same after a good ten years of playing the personal charade.

Heres a nutshell look at homosexuality which most Outsiders are clueless about :

Homosexual Activities (in %)
US16 US13 US US18 Denmark20 US19 London27 Sydney/
London26
Canada25
1940s1977 83/84 1983 1984 1983 1985
1991
ever ever ever in yr in yr in mo in mo last
6mo
oral/penile 83 99 100/99 99 86
67
anal/penile 68 91 93/98 95 92 95
100
oral/anal 59 83 92/92 63 69 89
55/65
urine sex on the body 10 23
29/
fisting/toys up the anus 22 41/47 34
fecal sex-eating 4
8
enemas 11
11
torture sex 22 37
37
public/orgy sex 61 76
88
sex with minors 37 23 24

[StMonicaGuideMe]

It is simply unnatural and now you may say that in the animal kingdom, (as in nature) we do say gay animals. well, even if you do that does not make it natural. I mean, I see rapists, it would be like saying that rape is natural because some humans practice it.

I'll even expand on that point further. Certain animals in the animal kingdom, not just mammals primarily, but insects as well, will forcefully copulate with the opposite sex, or what we would define as RAPE (since it's often with OBVIOUS resistance from the female) yet that could be called "natural". Should we then say that rape between humans is natural and should allow that?

[Ivellious]

CallMeDave: First of all, I have no idea in Hell what those random numbers you shoved up there even mean, much less can I get anything out of them. Perhaps you canm provide a source, with an explanation of how someone determines such statistics? And, as I've said before, your claiming that homosexuality is the cause of the STD epidemic is so wrong and disgusting that you would even make such a baseless claim.

[Murray]

Considering sodomy causes like a 70% greater chance of STD's than natural sex, yea, I suppose that connection can be made. And guess the only way gays can have sex? Unnatural filthy sodomy.

Connect the dots

[BryanH]

Most homosexuals are not taking advantage of marriage where it is legalized. The reason they want it is to normalize their lifestyle and force society, by penalty of law, to say it is so.

So let me see if I get this right: MOST HOMOSEXUALS don't actually want to get married, but they want to FORCE society to accept their lifestyle by penalty of law.

Are you listening to yourself?

I think that the first thing you should actually do is to provide some numbers for your statement... You are claiming that the majority of homosexual people (both men and women) are fighting for a right they don't actually want.

How many people homosexual people do you know jlay? Do you know the majority of them and what they ACTUALLY WANT?

[CallMeDave]

CallMeDave: First of all, I have no idea in Hell what those random numbers you shoved up there even mean, much less can I get anything out of them. Perhaps you canm provide a source, with an explanation of how someone determines such statistics? And, as I've said before, your claiming that homosexuality is the cause of the STD epidemic is so wrong and disgusting that you would even make such a baseless claim.

I used to be very ignorant of the whole topic at one time, too. Scroll down to Paragraph 'B' in this site and youll find the specific homosexual sex acts and a detailed list of the STD's associated with them (particularly making love with anothers feces) : http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html

ANd if you scroll down to the 'second' pie charts in this site, youll see that 61% of ALL present STD's are coming from male homosexuality specifically. http://www.avert.org/usa-statistics.htm

Yes, it is wrong and disgusting that so much apathy is shown toward the topic of homosexuality , and that the populace thinks its just another acceptable form of expressing 'love' . I hope you will choose to help people addicted to this dangerous and perverted lifestyle see the harm they are bringing upon themselves instead of taking a convenient backseat of apathy and enablement. To do the latter , is not very loving.

[BryanH]

I used to be very ignorant of the whole topic at one time, too. Scroll down to Paragraph 'B' in this site and youll find the specific homosexual sex acts and a detailed list of the STD's associated with them (particularly making love with anothers feces) : http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html

ANd if you scroll down to the 'second' pie charts in this site, youll see that 61% of ALL present STD's are coming from male homosexuality specifically. http://www.avert.org/usa-statistics.htm

Yes, it is wrong and disgusting that so much apathy is shown toward the topic of homosexuality , and that the populace thinks its just another acceptable form of expressing 'love' . I hope you will choose to help people addicted to this dangerous and perverted lifestyle see the harm they are bringing upon themselves instead of taking a convenient backseat of apathy and enablement. To do the latter , is not very loving.

Your statistics provided is based on numbers in the US and even the CDC admits that some of the trends are not actually very accurate because of their measuring methods. They do say that in 2014 they will have more accurate results.

So you see CallMeDave, what happens in the US doesn't account for what happens around the world.

I understand your position on homosexuality CallMeDave, but saying that homosexuality is a gross pervertion of love is an awful statement which has no proof at the same time.

Homosexual people have the same feelings like you and me. You could say that their sexual behavior is a perversion at best, but that's all.

Let me offer an example:

1) If a MAN and a WOMAN have anal sex that doesn't actually mean that they don't love each other. But of course you can say that they have perverted the sexual act.
2) If a MAN and a MAN have anal sex that doesn't actually mean that they don't love each other. But of course you can say that they have perverted the sexual act.
3) If a WOMAN and a WOMAN have anal sex that doesn't actually mean that they don't love each other. But of course you can say that they have perverted the sexual act.

You have assumed that love and sex go together all the time. That may be true for you, but maybe others don't apply the same rules in their lives. You might want to show some respect for their choices.

[CallMeDave]

I used to be very ignorant of the whole topic at one time, too. Scroll down to Paragraph 'B' in this site and youll find the specific homosexual sex acts and a detailed list of the STD's associated with them (particularly making love with anothers feces) : http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... o0075.html

ANd if you scroll down to the 'second' pie charts in this site, youll see that 61% of ALL present STD's are coming from male homosexuality specifically. http://www.avert.org/usa-statistics.htm

Yes, it is wrong and disgusting that so much apathy is shown toward the topic of homosexuality , and that the populace thinks its just another acceptable form of expressing 'love' . I hope you will choose to help people addicted to this dangerous and perverted lifestyle see the harm they are bringing upon themselves instead of taking a convenient backseat of apathy and enablement. To do the latter , is not very loving.

Your statistics provided is based on numbers in the US and even the CDC admits that some of the trends are not actually very accurate because of their measuring methods. They do say that in 2014 they will have more accurate results.

So you see CallMeDave, what happens in the US doesn't account for what happens around the world.

I understand your position on homosexuality CallMeDave, but saying that homosexuality is a gross pervertion of love is an awful statement which has no proof at the same time.

Homosexual people have the same feelings like you and me. You could say that their sexual behavior is a perversion at best, but that's all.

Let me offer an example:

1) If a MAN and a WOMAN have anal sex that doesn't actually mean that they don't love each other. But of course you can say that they have perverted the sexual act.
2) If a MAN and a MAN have anal sex that doesn't actually mean that they don't love each other. But of course you can say that they have perverted the sexual act.
3) If a WOMAN and a WOMAN have anal sex that doesn't actually mean that they don't love each other. But of course you can say that they have perverted the sexual act.

You have assumed that love and sex go together all the time. That may be true for you, but maybe others don't apply the same rules in their lives. You might want to show some respect for their choices.

Let me offer an example of what IS occuring in society today thru feces love making instead of allowing feces to naturally go from the human body directly into a toilet untouched :

"The end result is that the fragility of the anus and rectum, along with the immunosuppressive effect of ejaculate, make anal-genital intercourse a most efficient manner of transmitting HIV and other infections. The list of diseases found with extraordinary frequency among male homosexual practitioners as a result of anal intercourse is alarming:

Anal Cancer
Chlamydia trachomatis
Cryptosporidium
Giardia lamblia
Herpes simplex virus
Human immunodeficiency virus
Human papilloma virus
Isospora belli
Microsporidia
Gonorrhea
Viral hepatitis types B & C
Syphilis25


Please dont try to appeal to my heartstrings by encouraging me to be 'respectful' (apathetic) toward peoples wrong choices when the fruits reveal harmful diseases. I dont appreciate the attempted spin.

[BryanH]

@CallMeDave

So what is your problem with them assuming a risk? Does that concern you? Is that your problem? Are they making you ill? Are homosexual people coming to your door, knocking and asking to have sex with you? I assume that is not the case. Anyways, what is the connection between medical problems and being a sinner? You can get cancer and be a "perfect" Christian. I don't see why you should make a connection between homosexual, STDs and religion.

If things are as you present them to be, at some point in time all homosexuals will die from an STD. Problem solved: no more gay people:))

Anyways, you haven't answered my question: love and sex don't go together. How come you mix love and sex and homosexual people? Again, as I said before, you mix some personal opinions with real life. Having personal opinions is ok, but you speak of homosexual people in a very disrespectful way.

Let me remind you something: 2000 years ago, Christianity was a minority and very few people were Christians in the first place. The fact that today, Christianity has become an important religion doesn't give you the right to apply "bible laws" on other people and say that what they do is wrong and perverted.
Lots of Christian people have been killed because they tried to pass on the word of God/Jesus.

Now think of homosexuals and put yourself in their position. Just because you don't agree with what they do doesn't mean that they aren't entitled to doing that. They are a minority and they fight for their rights and they want to be treated equally.

Why should they be called sinners? Just because you have a book which you claim to be the word of a God that you can't even prove that it exists?

So when I said that you should show some respect for homosexual people, that is what I was referring to. Hope that now is more clear. I for one am tired of this blatant discrimination over homosexual people and blaming them for STDs are being perverts or something like that. And another thing: you keep talking about anal sex and stuff like that. Don't forget that homosexual people includes both men and women. The numbers you presented from CDC just says that men who are homosexual have a higher chance of contracting an STD. Well, again, it's their choice, not yours. Why should you point a finger at them?

[Reactionary]

If I may jump into the discussion...

You have assumed that love and sex go together all the time. That may be true for you, but maybe others don't apply the same rules in their lives. You might want to show some respect for their choices.

Most people who advocate sexual "freedom" usually don't have much respect for our (i.e. monogamists) choices. They (openly) consider us backward, conditioned, brainwashed, even though they're the ones who are more aggressive about promoting their lifestyle as the one which is "right". Although their worldview denies the existence of "right" and "wrong", as well as the free will. Ironic, isn't it?

So what is your problem with them assuming a risk? Does that concern you? Is that your problem? Are they making you ill? Are homosexual people coming to your door, knocking and asking to have sex with you? I assume that is not the case. Anyways, what is the connection between medical problems and being a sinner? You can get cancer and be a "perfect" Christian. I don't see why you should make a connection between homosexual, STDs and religion.

Firstly, HIV/AIDS can be spread by means other than sexual intercourse.
Secondly, I believe that Dave spoke from a strictly secular perspective, i.e. he didn't mention religion as an argument.
Thirdly, maybe he's sincerely concerned about the wellbeing of those people he considers endangered. That's also a part of "love", you know.

Having personal opinions is ok, but you speak of homosexual people in a very disrespectful way.

I didn't notice that. Where?

Let me remind you something: 2000 years ago, Christianity was a minority and very few people were Christians in the first place. The fact that today, Christianity has become an important religion doesn't give you the right to apply "bible laws" on other people and say that what they do is wrong and perverted.
Lots of Christian people have been killed because they tried to pass on the word of God/Jesus.

Dave used statistical data to support his claims. Do you see a Biblical quote anywhere?

Now think of homosexuals and put yourself in their position. Just because you don't agree with what they do doesn't mean that they aren't entitled to doing that. They are a minority and they fight for their rights and they want to be treated equally.

Technically, they are treated equally. Tell me one thing that is forbidden to a homosexual, which is at the same time allowed to a heterosexual.

Just because you have a book which you claim to be the word of a God that you can't even prove that it exists? (...) So when I said that you should show some respect for homosexual people, that is what I was referring to.

How about if you showed some respect for Christian people? Bah, hypocrites...

I for one am tired of this blatant discrimination over homosexual people and blaming them for STDs are being perverts or something like that.

U mad, bro?

And another thing: you keep talking about anal sex and stuff like that. Don't forget that homosexual people includes both men and women. The numbers you presented from CDC just says that men who are homosexual have a higher chance of contracting an STD. Well, again, it's their choice, not yours. Why should you point a finger at them?

See my response to the second quote in my post. Keyword: "love".

[jlay]

So let me see if I get this right: MOST HOMOSEXUALS don't actually want to get married, but they want to FORCE society to accept their lifestyle by penalty of law.

Are you listening to yourself?

I think that the first thing you should actually do is to provide some numbers for your statement... You are claiming that the majority of homosexual people (both men and women) are fighting for a right they don't actually want.

How many people homosexual people do you know jlay? Do you know the majority of them and what they ACTUALLY WANT?

I know quite a few homosexuals. In fact I even know a gay couple who has adopted two children.
And the Census bureau allowed gay couples to check the married box for the first time.

Are you aware of what happened to Catholic charities? I'd say you aren't. Or, if you are, you don't care.

Whether they get married has little to do with if they want the right. I'd feel safe in saying the majority of gays WANT the right. I WANT the right to own a firearm, but guess what? i don't own one. The gay agenda has very radical elements, and yes, there is little doubt that they aren't happy keeping their sex lives behind closed doors. They want an endorsement. And they want those who disagree to be held criminally and civily liable.

[Philip]

I think that homosexuals often push for rights to match those of married heterosexuals because they wish for their lifestyle to be seen by society as mainstream, unstigmatized, mass accepted and just as morally upright as the marriages of heterosexuals. Psychologically, to be seen as or to think of themselves as being perverted or morally repugnant, are also constantly horrible reminders that their lifestyle is SINFUL, and an abomination to God. They KNOW it is a perversion, but distance themselves from and also deny God and His Word, while also lying to themselves, mostly because they can't psychologically handle knowing that they are deliberately living a perverted, sinful life. So they want to clean up their conscience as well as to legitimize their lifestyle. And they do these by pretending to themselves that God doesn't matter or exist and by campaigning to legitimize their practices in the collective mind of society.

And almost universally, whenever you run into a (supposed) Christian who believes that practicing homosexuality is ok because God supposedly CREATED gay people GENETICALLY so that they would sexually seek out those of their gender, you will typically find that they also have a low/non-inerrant view of the original autographs of Scripture, as what it (Scripture) CLEARLY teaches does not match up with their own views of proper and Godly sexuality.

[BryanH]

@Reactionary

Most people who advocate sexual "freedom" usually don't have much respect for our (i.e. monogamists) choices. They (openly) consider us backward, conditioned, brainwashed, even though they're the ones who are more aggressive about promoting their lifestyle as the one which is "right". Although their worldview denies the existence of "right" and "wrong", as well as the free will. Ironic, isn't it?

How about if you showed some respect for Christian people? Bah, hypocrites...

Well, what can I say? What you seed is what you get. There was a time when the church had a lot of power and did a lot of very bad things in the name of Christianity. When I said something that happened in history lots of you here said that those people weren't following the word of God. None the less, today you have to pay for the mistakes they did in the name of God. I don't consider you guilty, but history can't be washed away. So now you are treated exactly as others who didn't follow the Christian rules. You are bullied because other rules are in place. Ironic, isn't it?

I didn't notice that. Where?

1) As you grow in your Christian Faith and Walk , read the Bible diligently, and obtain wisdom and discernment from God as part of his sanctifying work in your life.....you will eventually come to see that Homosexuality is not only a lifestyle of sin , but it is a gross perversion of love / extremely dangerous to the Players as well as society as a whole with the STD epidemic / and an addiction to secure emotional love from the same sex *usually from a childhood emotional imbalance between child and the same sex Parent. As you grow in your love for The Lord who saved you from your many sins, you will become more sensitive and aware of lifestyles which many call 'acceptable, optional, and an alternative' and the deciet which goes along with them
2) Yes, it is wrong and disgusting that so much apathy is shown toward the topic of homosexuality , and that the populace thinks its just another acceptable form of expressing 'love' . I hope you will choose to help people addicted to this dangerous and perverted lifestyle see the harm they are bringing upon themselves instead of taking a convenient backseat of apathy and enablement. To do the latter , is not very loving.

If that is a nice way to speak about people who have feelings like you and me... well, nice choice words...

Dave used statistical data to support his claims. Do you see a Biblical quote anywhere?

He calls homosexual people sinners based on statistics, not based on the Christian "biblical law". Ok... Nice one.

Anyways here is a quote from what he said: As you grow in your Christian Faith and Walk , read the Bible diligently, and obtain wisdom and discernment from God as part of his sanctifying work in your life.....you will eventually come to see that Homosexuality is not only a lifestyle of sin.....

U mad, bro?

Mad cow disease... I'm terrible bro...

Technically, they are treated equally. Tell me one thing that is forbidden to a homosexual, which is at the same time allowed to a heterosexual.

Technically? They are treated equally. In real life, well, that is a different thing...

See my response to the second quote in my post. Keyword: "love".

Yeah... Gay people are retarded and they don't know the dangers they are exposed to... If CallMeDave found a statistics about STDs and homosexual people, so can they.

Let me point out a thing: I don't think a gay person would want any love from CallMeDave which calls them perverts and thinks about them in terms of a gross distortion of love. Just saying... But CallMeDave is worried about their well being.

@jlay

Are you aware of what happened to Catholic charities? I'd say you aren't. Or, if you are, you don't care.

Probably. Is that the story about the Catholic charities who supported child adoption and which closed their doors because they had to accept homosexual couples?

Since you say I don't care, that is probably the story. Anyways, I am waiting for a confirmation for this one.

Whether they get married has little to do with if they want the right. I'd feel safe in saying the majority of gays WANT the right. I WANT the right to own a firearm, but guess what? i don't own one. The gay agenda has very radical elements, and yes, there is little doubt that they aren't happy keeping their sex lives behind closed doors. They want an endorsement. And they want those who disagree to be held criminally and civily liable.

They want rights as everybody else. You are not saying anything new. You won't be criminally charged if you disagree, but you might be charged if you go in a public place and start shouting that gay people are sinners.

Let me put this way (only in theory and just as a speculation): Let's say that I am bothered every time I see a Christian church. Let's close them all down. You can be a Christian in your own home. How would you like that?

@Philip

I think that homosexuals often push for rights to match those of married heterosexuals because they wish for their lifestyle to be seen by society as mainstream, unstigmatized, mass accepted and just as morally upright as the marriages of heterosexuals. Psychologically, to be seen as or to think of themselves as being perverted or morally repugnant, are also constantly horrible reminders that their lifestyle is SINFUL, and an abomination to God. They KNOW it is a perversion, but distance themselves from and also deny God and His Word, while also lying to themselves, mostly because they can't psychologically handle knowing that they are deliberately living a perverted, sinful life. So they want to clean up their conscience as well as to legitimize their lifestyle. And they do these by pretending to themselves that God doesn't matter or exist and by campaigning to legitimize their practices in the collective mind of society.

Without any offence to anyone here, I will repeat something: why should we uphold a "biblical law" given by a God which you can't prove it exists?

Anyways, let's assume you are right: Homosexual people might have a medical problem (maybe genetic). At the moment we haven't found a cure for it. So that means that homosexual people shouldn't have the same rights as you and me? They have the right to live a normal life. The fact that what they consider to be normal does not match with what you think, well, let's call it diversity.

And the only problem that most people are bothered here and talk about is their sexual behavior. You speak there of some psychological issue and other stuff. You should know that the "sexual instinct" is one of the basic instincts of every human being.

You are allowed to use your basic instinct, but they aren't... How is that? They should fight against their "immoral" needs...
Why don't you fight against that and never have sex at all? That would be wonderful.

[Reactionary]

Well, what can I say? What you seed is what you get. There was a time when the church had a lot of power and did a lot of very bad things in the name of Christianity. When I said something that happened in history lots of you here said that those people weren't following the word of God. None the less, today you have to pay for the mistakes they did in the name of God. I don't consider you guilty, but history can't be washed away. So now you are treated exactly as others who didn't follow the Christian rules. You are bullied because other rules are in place. Ironic, isn't it?

That's nonsense. So, according to you, black people should rule over the whites for a few hundred years because it was the other way around in the past? That would be a brilliant way of fixing historical inequities. Should we also re-establish vendetta?

If that is a nice way to speak about people who have feelings like you and me... well, nice choice words...

Again, I don't see anything offensive directed at the people, but rather at the lifestyle.

Technically, they are treated equally. Tell me one thing that is forbidden to a homosexual, which is at the same time allowed to a heterosexual.

Technically? They are treated equally. In real life, well, that is a different thing...

You didn't reply to my question. What is forbidden to homosexuals, while at the same time allowed to heterosexuals?

Yeah... Gay people are retarded and they don't know the dangers they are exposed to... If CallMeDave found a statistics about STDs and homosexual people, so can they.

Nobody said that anyone was retarded. However, people sometimes wilfully do things that they know are harmful - such as smoking. If someone is infected with an STD, it means that he/she most likely wasn't behaving sexually responsible, because we know how STDs are transmitted. It's contained in the abbreviation itself.

Let me put this way (only in theory and just as a speculation): Let's say that I am bothered every time I see a Christian church. Let's close them all down. You can be a Christian in your own home. How would you like that?

You know, this is already happening.

So that means that homosexual people shouldn't have the same rights as you and me?

I already told you that they do have the same rights as you and me. Prove me wrong.

They have the right to live a normal life. The fact that what they consider to be normal does not match with what you think, well, let's call it diversity.

Where are the limits of "diversity"? Why doesn't your "diversity" apply to Christians disagreeing with lifestyles they don't approve of? Nobody is attacking or hating anyone here, contrary to what you think. What's so wrong about expressing disagreement?

You should know that the "sexual instinct" is one of the basic instincts of every human being. (...) You are allowed to use your basic instinct, but they aren't... How is that? They should fight against their "immoral" needs...

EDIT: Who says that I am allowed to? What if I get aroused to a girl I see in the street? The law (rightfully) says that I'm not allowed to rape her. According to you, is that discrimination? Seriously, what's with these "instinct" schemes? Reason is what differs us from animals. People use their reason, animals use their instincts. But I guess, evolutionary teachings have contributed to animalizing humans.