Evidence for God from Science

I am a huge classic rock/southern rock fan, I also love Christian rock/metal.

I have a good friend who says there is "no such thing as Christian rock", he reasons that listening to Led Zeppelin is wrong because Jimmy Page supposedly worships the devil (he bought Aleister Crowley's house), same for Dave Mustaine, Ozzy Osbourne.

Kind of hard to argue with him when you look at the lyrics and the lifestyles that are glorified... what do you folks do?

Chad wrote:I am a huge classic rock/southern rock fan, I also love Christian rock/metal.

I have a good friend who says there is "no such thing as Christian rock", he reasons that listening to Led Zeppelin is wrong because Jimmy Page supposedly worships the devil (he bought Aleister Crowley's house), same for Dave Mustaine, Ozzy Osbourne.

Kind of hard to argue with him when you look at the lyrics and the lifestyles that are glorified... what do you folks do?

Chad, I can appreciate the musical talent of anyone, regardless of their relationship with Christ. Maybe it's because I have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever.

Christians or devil worshipers, Led Zeppelin is certainly very talented.

Chad wrote:same for Dave Mustaine

In the early 2000s, Dave Mustaine became a born again Christian.
Page was fascinated with the occult, (So am I) but I highly doubt that he actually "worshiped the devil."

I didn't realize that about Dave Mustaine, guess I should check my facts a bit better..

Now if only Disturbed becomes born again I'm all set...

I think there are several considerations in deciding what music to listen to. Prayerfully discern if music is right for you or negatively impacting you spiritually (or any other way). I for one don't consider one style "evil". Many of what are now considered classic hymns were at one time drinking songs and bar tunes.

So while some lyrics might be bad and harmful to listen to, that doesn't mean that 1. You can't appreciate talent when you see it, and 2. That what's wrong with it extends to the entire genre.

I probably already said the same thing in this thread but that's how I feel about it.

I would agree with Narnia. Some music is easy to discern as "bad", whether for it's messages, lyrical content or just the SOUND and I think it's getting easier and easier as fewer and fewer artists record songs with intellectual weight

I think that music, like the thread on fiction literature/film I had going a while back, isn't evil at its core. Some people like to say Marilyn Manson creates evil music and they blame his music for the Columbine shootings. That's a garbage argument to me, regardless of his messages. Actually, if you sift through his work, you'll find an incredible amount of musical innovation and many of his songs are actually social criticisms (not advocating for those things, but actually criticizing them).

Eminem is another one. Though I realize rap isn't the type of stuff most people listen to (I only listen to some of that genre), Eminem is seriously a lyrical genius. He's another guy who gets labeled as overtly violent and insensitive in his lyrics. While violent and full of swearing and gratuitous sexual content, some of Eminem's albums are really brilliant works. Again, glancing through his songs it sounds like he's promoting a negative lifestyle, but most of it is not so. He paints these stories being so overtly wrong sounding and twisted as a method of showing the ridiculousness of it. It's tongue in cheek criticism of the "glorified" gangster lifestyles and also a lot of his earlier songs deal with his own life story and the social and economic problems he witnessed firsthand.

My point is that you shouldn't judge music simply as good or bad based on the face value of its lyrics.

As far as Led Zeppelin goes, they are rock and roll icons regardless of their personal lives. They changed the genre for the better, in my opinion, and that legacy is still present.

As far as Christian music goes, I think the biggest problem with branching out of the really narrow "box" of the genre is the audience. Most people listening to them aren't kids, but adults. They buy those albums to get a certain kind of song, and that's really what they expect, no more, no less. I think it would be difficult to be a true "Christian rock" band and be successful if they strayed too far from that formula. In essence, narrow target audience = narrow target interests = little room for variation before you lose the audience's interest.

I would absolutely agree about Eminem. Sure, the content is sometimes questionable, but his talent is unrivaled. One of my favorite songs of his came out fairly recently (2 years ago) and it chronicled the destructive nature of abusive relationships. The line that gets me every time is "now you get to watch her leave, out the window, guess that's why they call it 'window pane'". It's BRILLIANT.
It makes me sad however, when individuals with obvious talent, aren't using it for a greater glory (like God) or singing messages that support His messages.

I think Switchfoot is a good example of a Christian rock band. Excellent lyrics, great sound, not too "mushy".

As far as Christian music goes, I think the biggest problem with branching out of the really narrow "box" of the genre is the audience. Most people listening to them aren't kids, but adults. They buy those albums to get a certain kind of song, and that's really what they expect, no more, no less. I think it would be difficult to be a true "Christian rock" band and be successful if they strayed too far from that formula. In essence, narrow target audience = narrow target interests = little room for variation before you lose the audience's interest.

This kinda reminds me of Matthew 7:13, There are plenty of good Christian rock bands but the problem lies with people not the music itself.
This is one of my favourite Christian rock bands, http://www.seventhdayslumber.com/ check em out they are awesomely talented.


Dan

My new favorite christian band- As I Lay Dying... Clean lyrics, good christian messages in all their songs

It's not just more-recent CHRISTIAN music that has lost it's quality, but popular music IN GENERAL! An awful lot of songs today are not written by musicians, but are written by singers who hire someone to arrange the bulk of their musical compositions for them. This almost always means a lower quality of the instrumental portions of a song. And so many newer modern songs end up sounding like the lyrics were written and then subsequently the instrumental portion was just tacked on as a cheap backdrop.

I'm a boomer and a guitarist. When I was a teenager, you could go in just about any dorm room or friend's house and you'd at least see an acoustic or electric guitar lying around. Kids nowadays often don't pick up an instrument (unless they are in school band). Plus 35+ years of bean counters running record companies along with their collective history of relentlessly signing ever-less quality "clones" of whatever artists happen to be charting at the moment, have ruined popular recorded music - making for an on-going and downward generational spirals in overall musical quality. And this means millions have grown up listening to ever-poorer-quality radio. So less and less singers and songwriters grow up being exposed to quality genres of music, so they often have much less quality musical influences. And pop music now is virtually all about "discotheque" music and choreographed dance moves.

And so, for me, obtaining new music is a matter of what new music is actually available: as there is less quality music, secular or Christian (to begin with), and as there is less Christian music (in comparison to secular), I find it difficult to find quality Christian music. And I hate to say it, but much of today's "Christian" music sounds rather "sappy" to me. So I love to discover obscure artists on YouTube or gravitate to classic rock, old progressive rock, classical/orchestral, cinema/soundtrack compositions, old pop, R&B, Blues, various genres of jazz, Eastern music, bluegrass, and various hybrid genres. And the older I get, the more I love instrumental music. But, in general, the more quality the music, the less popular it seems to be with the masses. And musicians have to make a living - so there ya go!

Lastly, I think so many churches get stuck in a rut with the songs they use in worship. They need to shake it up a bit, and not be so redundant! So many sing the same songs, over and over. I guess it's because they must pay rights to use copyrighted songs? But I go to a non-denominational community church with an absolutely kicking band - and they are relentlessly changing up their playlists.

Well not sure if you're familiar with the band Megadeth? The main driving force and song writer behind them is Dave Mustaine.
He converted to Christianity around 2007 after a seriously chequered past. While some of the material they have released since his conversion has had references to aspects of Christianity, the music is by and large not religious.

Megadeth are considered one of the top metal bands of all time. Wait no, I got that wrong, they are the best metal band of all time!!

In fact they just released their latest album, Th1rt3en, not too long ago and kicks some serious ass.

Hm, well as a person who listens to Christian alternative, rock, screamo, metalcore, et cetera I'd say the genre is still alive and well. Some bands I listen to are more secular and others are very Christian, but overall I value good music and decent lyrics. If something REALLY bothers me I won't listen to them.

This is my last.fm page if you want to see my charts... http://www.last.fm/user/callisto1988
Most of the bands there would be considered Christian, I think. You have to listen to the lyrics to be sure, and some will flat-out say it on their band description page.

domokunrox wrote:Hello all, new to the site. Christian here, like the site a lot because it has helped my ability to witness to non believers greatly. Anyway.

I wanted to bring up this topic with other Christians because I think its a very big topic I don't think gets much attention.

Being that I have been a musician all my life, I hold it very close to my identity and I recognize that my musical talent is a gift from God. However, I find myself inspired wholly by secular music and as a result my music compositions are exclusively secular. I have been examining myself and why this is and I've found that I draw more to secular music because its constantly on the cutting edge of musical creativity and the expression of words just say more about the struggles we face with humanity. I am not saying that Christian music like that doesn't exist. Sure, I can agree that the music I crave about my faith just never makes it to the limelight. I think there are bands who have made great strides in music, but they seem to be bands who are Christians who simply have good messages in their music. A good example is the band POD.

The question I am wondering is, why is it that we as Christians are afraid of pioneering music and going to those dark places? It just seems like its just so frowned upon to create artistic Christian music that doesn't speak about God or his message in every sentence. Sadly, I don't think its ever going to get there and it looks like we doomed to being unable break past the stereotype of Christian music.

We as Christians may never be able to engage a listener in the same way secular music does and say that God inspired it. I know some of you are thinking, well, what
Examples of music are you talking about?

Pink Floyd, ISIS, Deftones, Mastodon, Tears for fears, I am sure this one wont be popular with you guys but TOOL has been a big musical inspiration if you can bear through the poor messages in it.

I actually want to acknowledge real pioneers of our time who have done amazing work.
Switchfoot
Addison Road
Thousand Foot crutch

Anyhow, please discuss. I am eager to hear opinions. A little about me. I not only am a musician, I also record music professionally. The real kind. Not the bedroom hobbyist semi pros out there. Been a Christian for 8 years. Still can't get my wife to stop listening to the garbage hip hop on the radio. Hahahahaha.

As lovers of Christ, we are called by the Bible to seperate ourselves from the worlds philosophies, standards, and influences....which music is certainly a part of due to its appeal and impact . The Bible says that you cant love the world and yet love God at the same time ; in fact, the Bible is clear that God wants us to have less and less of the world in us as we advance in our walk with him. Many Christians have decided to completely disregard secular music because the messages are not godly and in fact most are anti-God / anti-Christ / anti-morality by their lyrics --- even softer pop music with its glorification of casual sex . There are many Rock Groups whos lyrics and antics on stage purposely defame God, anything to do with Christianity, or authority ... particularly law enforcement .

I reached this crossroads about 10 years into my Christian Walk and decided that the immoral messages inherent in secular music was dishonoring to my Lord and Creator. As far as secular music goes, I still listen to Oldies music from the 1960's but with great discernment . I have found that there are plenty of pop music bands that play upbeat Christian Music with a distinctive God honoring message . I do believe that music is one avenue which Satan uses today to get people further away from God, and, to get the devouted Christian to compromise his/her values ...slowly and subtely yet effectively . This 18 part video presentation might give you some insight on the issue : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKIQ7T-t_V4 . Remember, we will get rewards for an obedient earthly life spent in honor and service to Christ and it puts a smile on Gods face when we shun the things which are ultimately harmful to us including our Christian Walk.

Rob wrote:

Seraph wrote:Just for fun and anyone who is interested, I recently made a youtube video thing of my top 15 favorite albums.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lkLPzxf ... ideo_title

I love 15, 13, 11, 9, 5, 4, and 2!

Big Doors fan, eh?

Probably my favorite song of all time:

http://youtu.be/p6S9oqJRclo

Timeless.

Heh late response. For sure, I'm a massive Doors fan!

Thought I'd post this for anyone who might be interested. I made this today and might do more soon:

Pretzel Logic (Steely Dan) Cover:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCOQvuiP ... =g-all-lik