Danny,
This is my opinion, on why I believe a belief in Calvinism, leads to a lack of love. It is not a personal attack on you. Just like any other doctrine I disagree with, is not a personal attack on the one who believes it. So, If you can understand that, then maybe we can proceed.
Unconditional Election
Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8).
Well done for showing this glorious biblical doctrine, Rick.
Danny, this "Unconditional Election" shown here in the quote of the Calvinist site, is taking the passages in Romans, out of context. Romans 9, isn't referring to election to eternal life, and damnation to eternity, for those who God chooses, by the council of His own will.
Here is a link that shows what Romans 9 , is about.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/commenta ... ans-9.html
from the link:
In this chapter St. Paul, after strongly declaring his love and esteem for them, sets himself to answer the grand objection of his countrymen; namely, that the rejection of the Jews and reception of the gentiles was contrary to the word of God. That he had not here the least thought of personal election or reprobation is manifest,
This Calvinist belief, especially the part I put in blue, is the beginning of how those in Calvinism have a basis for not showing the love of Christ, to all people they are in contact with.
Then you might want to take this up with the apostle when you are in heaven, Rick. Why are you calling this a Calvinist belief? Isn’t it your belief, Rick? It’s certainly the apostle’s belief. See Romans 9
Danny, see above link, to understand what Romans 9 is saying. The part in blue here:
God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world, is the Calvinist belief, that is derived from reading Romans 9, in improper context.
Now, if God doesn't love everyone, and that means God must hate the ones He doesn't love
Do you dispute this?
I absolutely dispute, that what God means by "hate", is the same meaning that WBC shows by their actions, to be the meaning of hate.
then why should Calvinists not hate those that they believe God hates. They are just emulating their god.
Interesting. How would the Calvinist work that out, Rick?
Danny, you can see how when someone takes what they see as "hate" of unbelievers, to its logical conclusion, we end up with the actions, and un-Christlike hate of unbelievers.
The WBC are not representing Calvinism at all. Tell me though, Rick, do you believe in the God revealed by Paul in Ephesians and in Romans?
Danny, WBC, as crazy as they are, DO represent what happens when Calvinism is taken all the way, to its logical end. Fortunately, all Calvinists don't take Calvinism "all the way" as WBC does.
Where am I told to love arrogant, autonomous man? I don’t love atheists, Rick. Do you really love these people? I love whom I love and I love Christ and those in Christ. God doesn’t even love all people, Rick, so how do you think I should fair against such competition?
I fall very short of the glory of God. And as I recall, we established that you do not love all atheists, Rick. Are you comparing me with the WBC? I’m not really sure why you felt you had to quote this; I guess that’s something only you’ll know.
Danny, I posted your quote, to show that it is where "holding to Calvinism" leads. Your quote is Calvinist at its core.
Danny, we all fall short of the glory of God. And contrary to what you believe I'm doing, this isn't a personal attack on you. If you go back to the thread where I originally had a problem with your quote, you'll see that I had a problem with what you said. And it was never an attack on you, personally. I quoted your quote, to show it in the context of what I'm saying about where Calvinism logically leads. And, I'm comparing your quote to WBC. I'm certainly not comparing you to the members of WBC. I want to make that perfectly clear.
This is why I think Calvinism, taken to its logical end, leads to a lack of love, as shown by the lives lived by the members of WBC, and by the statement of Danny, above.
Then the bible, taken to its logical end, leads to a lack of love, as shown by the lives lived by the members of WBC, and by the statement of Danny above.
No, Danny. How Calvinists interpret the bible, out of context, leads to a lack of love, as shown by the lives lived by the members of WBC, and by the statement of Danny above.
I know you can't separate Calvinism's interpretation of the bible, and the bible itself, Danny. That's why I was talking before, about not being stuck in a belief system, such as Calvinism, or any other ism. Because that just leads to interpreting the bible through the ism, not by the bible itself. I'm saying that the best way to read the bible, is to read, while letting the Holy Spirit speak to us. Not reading in light of how some "ism" interprets it. I hope you understand that this wasn't a personal attack against you, or anyone else.