Evidence for God from Science

1over137 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.

Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.

Yes, on that I agree because if how we act, how we interpret the bible and how we preach, pushes people away from God then WE become the stumbling block that Christ warned us not to be.

1over137 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.

Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.

Hana, a stumbling block in the sense that PaulSacramento is using, is a bad thing. A stumbling block is something that hinders one from coming to Christ. We certainly don't want to be a stumbling block to unbelievers.

Nothing in orthodox teaching SHOULD be a stumbling block BUT in my discussion with non-believers I have found that THEIR VIEW of "orthodox" teachings IS a stumbling block and what needs to be "fixed" is that view.

1over137 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.

Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.

Hi Hana

I have been thinking and praying deeply about what you said and your right, what me and others have said is not right and we should stop.
I will make a concerted effort to keep the conversation civil and not be so stubborn when it is pointed out that I have said the wrong thing.
On this same point I think the Mod's really need to moderate some of the visitors here as their posts can be very disrespectful and rude which in turn can draw out a nasty response ( not saying that it is an excuse ).


Dan

A friendly reminder: The Bible is a stumbling block to unbelievers. Eliminate the offending passages and unbelievers will love it. You could eliminate most of the OT, most of the NT and with a little luck, you could squeeze the Bible into the space of a few pages, ten at most.

I'll call it the HUV, the Holy Unoffensive Version.

FL

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

1over137 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.

Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.

Hi Hana

I have been thinking and praying deeply about what you said and your right, what me and others have said is not right and we should stop.
I will make a concerted effort to keep the conversation civil and not be so stubborn when it is pointed out that I have said the wrong thing.
On this same point I think the Mod's really need to moderate some of the visitors here as their posts can be very disrespectful and rude which in turn can draw out a nasty response ( not saying that it is an excuse ).


Dan

Daniel, we all get emotional, and say things in the heat of an argument, from time to time. I can only speak for myself as a Mod, but I tend to give more leeway to some of the newer members. But, on the other hand, if I see something that crosses the line, I'll say something. One thing I've been learning, is to try to listen to the message someone is trying to get across, and not be focused so much on the tone, of the speaker. I find if I get hung up on the way someone says something, I tend to miss what the person is trying to say. It's a lot more difficult in person, when emotions are more apparent.

@Dan
May I hug you?

@FL
Sure, we should show the Bible in its fullness.

1over137 wrote:@Dan
May I hug you?

@FL
Sure, we should show the Bible in its fullness.

Sure

Danieltwotwenty wrote: Sure

What a nice start of the day.

1over137 wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote: Sure

What a nice start of the day.

A nice hug, sure beats choking on a grape, any day.

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:A friendly reminder: The Bible is a stumbling block to unbelievers. Eliminate the offending passages and unbelievers will love it. You could eliminate most of the OT, most of the NT and with a little luck, you could squeeze the Bible into the space of a few pages, ten at most.

I'll call it the HUV, the Holy Unoffensive Version.

FL

Like I said above, nothing in Orthodox teachings SHOULD be a stumbling block when properly explained.
Like it or not, we ALL interpret the bible, even in Jesus' time the bible was interpreted differently between the various groups ( Pharisees, Saudacess, Essences, Zelots,etc).
The bible is infallible, interpretations of it are not.

PaulSacramento wrote:

1over137 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Has anyone here read "The reason for God" by Tim Keller?
It goes into the very issues that so many do have with religion ( and Christianity in particular), including does that WERE Christians.

I read it two years or so ago. I have the book at my mother-in-law home. I can take it to my home.

It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.

Well what do you think about what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 2:16?

- 2 Corinthians 2:15-16 - For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

The unsaved are their own stumblingblock because of their dullness to hear (Matthew 13:15, Acts 28:27)... Most skeptics are looking for a cop out or excuse to live in sin. But a cop out or excuse won't keep any of us from going to hell because God has sent as a FREE gift HIS only begotten SON to pay a sin debt for you and for me (Ephesians 2:8,9).

IN CHRIST

1over137 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.

Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.

I agree. People think that the problem believing in a God is in the mentality. They say that they have mental blocks (Ephesians 4:17,18). The real block is not in the mind but in the unregenerates heart. Hearts aren't converted (John 3:3, John 3:6). John 4:24 says - God is a Spirit. HIS Spirit can only be discerned by and through faith (Hebrews 11:1). God cannot be discerned with physical discerning senses or intellect. HE must be discerned by a spiritual discerning sense called faith (Hebrews 11:6). The questions is, have we been born again according to John 3:3 and John 3:6 where we can sense our heavenly father if HE is indeed our heavenly father?

IN CHRIST

PaulSacramento wrote:

1over137 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote: I found it facinating how Pastor Keller had to deal with these very issues and how well he did.
I always worry when I hear from someone that the reason they are not a Christian is because of the Christians they know.
It always brings me to that warning about NOT being the stumbling block to others.

Talking about stumbling blocks, this site with this forum has a great potential to be one big stumbling block for atheists. It already is a stumbling block, but can be greater. But this we will not achieve by laughing at atheists as I've seen in the posts since I joined in.

Yes, on that I agree because if how we act, how we interpret the bible and how we preach, pushes people away from God then WE become the stumbling block that Christ warned us not to be.

I believe that when THE WORD speaks of being a stumbling block, it is in regard to a immature brother or sister in Christ (Romans 14:13).

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:A friendly reminder: The Bible is a stumbling block to unbelievers. Eliminate the offending passages and unbelievers will love it. You could eliminate most of the OT, most of the NT and with a little luck, you could squeeze the Bible into the space of a few pages, ten at most.

I'll call it the HUV, the Holy Unoffensive Version.

FL

Amen..