"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
Same here.Beanybag wrote:Definitely something to think about. Thanks for the discussion. :]
I addressed 7 out of 8 of your examples. I consider it a success.Beanybag wrote:Doesn't address Japan.
That's just your personal opinion. Since you were talking about the empirical, objective perspective, let's see a few studies:Beanybag wrote:Nor do I find it a particularly good objection for the other countries - I'm more inclined to think that as a country moves away from outdated texts and overly restrictive prescriptive tenants, the more it will thrive (at least, as it seems to be empirically)..
One of the most stunning outcomes from the Barna survey was the moral pattern among adults under 25. The younger generation was more than twice as likely as all other adults to engage in behaviors considered morally inappropriate by traditional standards. Their choices made even the Baby Boomers - never regarded as a paragon of traditional morality - look like moral pillars in comparison.
For instance, two-thirds of the under-25 segment (64%) had used profanity in public, compared to just one out of five Boomers (19%). The younger group - known as Mosaics - was nine times more likely than were Boomers to have engaged in sex outside of marriage (38% vs. 4%), six times more likely to have lied (37% vs. 6%), almost three times more likely to have gotten drunk (25% vs. 9%) and to have gossiped (26% vs. 10%), and twice as likely as Boomers to have observed pornography (33% vs. 16%) and to have engaged in acts of retaliation (12% vs. 5%).
Or another one:According to George Barna, who directed the survey, the results reflect a significant shift in American life.
"We are witnessing the development and acceptance of a new moral code in America," said the researcher and author, who has been surveying national trends in faith and morality for more than a quarter-century. "Mosaics have had little exposure to traditional moral teaching and limited accountability for such behavior. The moral code began to disintegrate when the generation before them - the Baby Busters - pushed the limits that had been challenged by their parents - the Baby Boomers. The result is that without much fanfare or visible leadership, the U.S. has created a moral system based on convenience, feelings, and selfishness.
"The consistent deterioration of the Bible as the source of moral truth has led to a nation where people have become independent judges of right and wrong, basing their choices on feelings and circumstances. It is not likely that America will return to a more traditional moral code until the nation experiences significant pain from its moral choices."
You were also mentioning safety from crime, so I suggest that you take a look at how crime rates changed through the 20th century:These findings, says Bibby, point to a stark conclusion: "To the extent that Canadians say good-bye to God, we may find that we pay a significant social price."
Nobody was saying that God helps one country more than another. The point was that by rejecting God, humans lose an important moral compass. I believe that the studies I brought up corroborate that position.Beanybag wrote:Honestly, I'm not sure why God would be concerned with the political actions of states and why he would help one country over another. It seems to me that countries rise and fall purely on the actions of their leaders and constituents.
And the world couldn't be better for it. As for failing older 'traditional' moral systems, I see that as a byproduct of moral progress. I'm quite happy with these reports. Petty breaches of morality (gossip, lying, etc.) at the cost of less violent crime and more peace overall. Strong differences in opinion here, of course.Reactionary wrote:"The consistent deterioration of the Bible as the source of moral truth has led to a nation where people have become independent judges of right and wrong, basing their choices on feelings and circumstances. It is not likely that America will return to a more traditional moral code until the nation experiences significant pain from its moral choices."
I see a consistent downward trend in violent crime. What should I be seeing?You were also mentioning safety from crime, so I suggest that you take a look at how crime rates changed through the 20th century:
http://www.jrsa.org/programs/Historical.pdf
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
As I go around my daily routine, I see cameras filming me as I drive my car, cameras filming me as I enter a building, cameras filming me as I get into an elevator, cameras filming me as I do my shopping...cameras are everywhere.Beanybag wrote:And the world couldn't be better for it. As for failing older 'traditional' moral systems, I see that as a byproduct of moral progress. I'm quite happy with these reports. Petty breaches of morality (gossip, lying, etc.) at the cost of less violent crime and more peace overall. Strong differences in opinion here, of course.
Just smileFurstentum Liechtenstein wrote:As I go around my daily routine, I see cameras filming me as I drive my car, cameras filming me as I enter a building, cameras filming me as I get into an elevator, cameras filming me as I do my shopping...cameras are everywhere.Beanybag wrote:And the world couldn't be better for it. As for failing older 'traditional' moral systems, I see that as a byproduct of moral progress. I'm quite happy with these reports. Petty breaches of morality (gossip, lying, etc.) at the cost of less violent crime and more peace overall. Strong differences in opinion here, of course.
What do you think would happen to our society if all those cameras were removed? Are they not a restraint to crime & vandalism & picking your nose in public?
FL
I was making an allusion to the Restrainer now in the world - the Holy Spirit - who is holding back evil. The cameras that follow most of us around in our daily routines are a worldly version of the Holy Spirit. If those cameras were to disappear, does anyone think things would continue as they are? The present climate of irrespect towards authority suggests things would degenerate, and quickly.B. W. wrote:
Just smile
Used to be - God is watching - now its the fed's... with drones
What progress? Where do you see a progress? You may be right that we have strong differences in opinion here though - if you like to live an irresponsible, selfish life, then these truly are the best times for you. For us honest people, it's far from ideal. You say that lying is a petty beanch of morality, so you obviously don't value honesty at all. As for peace, I don't think these times are peaceful - we're being bombarded with information from everywhere, regardless of whether we want that or not, or more importantly, whether we agree with that info. The society and the media are trying to force us into thinking in a certain way, into being irresponsible, dishonest, promiscuous etc., claiming that it's something progressive, yet it's destructive to the society as well as individuals, and I believe this statement will prove itself to be true in the not very distant future - in my opinion, our generations may live long enough to witness the fall of the Western society as we know it. Unless we wake up on time, but I'm afraid that a majority is too indifferent to do so.Beanybag wrote:And the world couldn't be better for it. As for failing older 'traditional' moral systems, I see that as a byproduct of moral progress. I'm quite happy with these reports. Petty breaches of morality (gossip, lying, etc.) at the cost of less violent crime and more peace overall. Strong differences in opinion here, of course.
Where do you see it?Beanybag wrote:I see a consistent downward trend in violent crime. What should I be seeing?
I would also add that forensic science has progressed greatly in the recent decades, which is certainly a factor in discouraging potential criminals.Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:As I go around my daily routine, I see cameras filming me as I drive my car, cameras filming me as I enter a building, cameras filming me as I get into an elevator, cameras filming me as I do my shopping...cameras are everywhere.
What do you think would happen to our society if all those cameras were removed? Are they not a restraint to crime & vandalism & picking your nose in public?
Theologically it may have been simply to show/make the Hebrew people distinct and different from their pagan counterparts as "the chosen people".rstrats wrote:PaulSacramento,
re: “There was a time that food restrictions were needed, not anymore.”
Any thoughts as to why food restrictions were needed at one time, and at what point they were no longer needed and the reason for that?