Evidence for God from Science

1over137 wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:

1over137 wrote:

Hannah had for example soul

Appropriate, isn't it?

And today is my nameday.

Lol, I think very few cultures understand what that means so congrats!. Is it because it is a saint's name Hana?

In Gen 35:18; 2Kings 4:27; 1Sa 1:15; there is Hebrew word napsah. Is that a word for soul? Or from Gen 2:7 is nismat the right word? My atheist friend says that napsah can be translated as herself. And he also claims that if I want to look what is really in OT I should look at Torah.

1over137 wrote:In Gen 35:18; 2Kings 4:27; 1Sa 1:15; there is Hebrew word napsah. Is that a word for soul? Or from Gen 2:7 is nismat the right word? My atheist friend says that napsah can be translated as herself. And he also claims that if I want to look what is really in OT I should look at Torah.

The Torah IS the OT, it's the first 5 books.

Nephesh is the word for soul. There is no other. That's why I said earlier your friend needs to explain his position before he asks people to critique his so-called argument. And the word in Gen 2:7 is not nishmat. That one means "breathed." The last phrase, "And the man became a living soul," uses nephesh.

As far as arguing against 1 Sam. since it doesn't come from the Torah, he's just moving the goalposts (ANOTHER problem in his argument. That's what . . . four or five logical fallacies now?). On what basis would he assert that the author of Samuel has a different theology than the author of the Torah?

But if you are going to keep playing his game, then refer him to the passages in Genesis and Numbers I referred to earlier.

Lastly, yes, nephesh can refer to the self. It is a figure of speech called a metonymy, in which you refer to the whole by pointing to a part. For instance, in English we have a saying, "All hands on deck!" The captain certainly wants more than the sailors' hands on the deck. Or my father used to say, "Get your butt in here!" He wanted more than just my posterior present! So when the OT uses nephesh to refer to the self, that is because that there is a part of the person called a nephesh (a soul) that can be used to refer to the entire person.

To echo what other have said:
The Torah is the Pentateuch - the first 5 books of the OT, the ones "authored" by Moses ( traditonally).
And the hebrew word nephesh means soul or life or creature:

http://www.logosapostolic.org/hebrew_wo ... soul_1.htm

All: do you know of some passage from OT from which it follows that women have soul?

Not from the OT, but I could argue that Aretha Franklin definitely has soul.

Do you know of some website where on can search words in Torah?

1over137 wrote:Do you know of some website where on can search words in Torah?

The one I posted is one and so is the blueletterbible website.

PaulSacramento wrote:

1over137 wrote:Do you know of some website where on can search words in Torah?

The one I posted is one and so is the blueletterbible website.

Blueletterbible is awesome. I use it all the time. Hana, when you use it, click the C button beside any verse and you'll see the Greek or Hebrew (cool bonus: if it's an OT passage, it'll give you the Hebrew AND the LXX!) words behind each of the verses.

I'd also strongly suggest downloading e-sword. You can do a lot there, too.

Jac3510 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

1over137 wrote:Do you know of some website where on can search words in Torah?

The one I posted is one and so is the blueletterbible website.

Blueletterbible is awesome. I use it all the time. Hana, when you use it, click the C button beside any verse and you'll see the Greek or Hebrew (cool bonus: if it's an OT passage, it'll give you the Hebrew AND the LXX!) words behind each of the verses.

I'd also strongly suggest downloading e-sword. You can do a lot there, too.

I use it too, it is one of the better sites for comparing versions, translations and to see the "interlinear" of the verses and see how the different translations decided to go with one definition of a word over another.

A great example is Genesis 35:18 mentioned above.
The Hebrew word is soul but some translations decide to use "breath" and while that could be a correct translation, under the context of the verse, soul is by far, more correct (IMO).

My friend finally saw that Gen 35:18 implies that woman has soul.
He is now asking that what is soul according to the Bible.

1over137 wrote:My friend finally saw that Gen 35:18 implies that woman has soul.
He is now asking that what is soul according to the Bible.

The word "soul" or the theological concept of "soul"?

PaulSacramento wrote:

1over137 wrote:My friend finally saw that Gen 35:18 implies that woman has soul.
He is now asking that what is soul according to the Bible.

The word "soul" or the theological concept of "soul"?

Better both. (According to the OT, or Torah)

The word soul in the OT is from the hebrew word Nephesh, which means/is used to describe:


1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion

a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man

b) living being

c) living being (with life in the blood)

d) the man himself, self, person or individual

e) seat of the appetites

f) seat of emotions and passions

g) activity of mind

1) dubious

h) activity of the will

1) dubious

i) activity of the character

1) dubious


http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 315&t=NASB

1over137 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

1over137 wrote:My friend finally saw that <a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Gen%2035.18" class="lbsBibleRef" data-reference="Gen 35.18" data-version="nasb95" target="_blank">Gen 35:18</a> implies that woman has soul.
He is now asking that what is soul according to the Bible.

The word "soul" or the theological concept of "soul"?

Better both. (According to the OT, or Torah)

Like all things theological, it depends on who you ask. The most important objective fact is that the word nephesh is not exclusively applied to human beings. Animals are also said to have nepheshim (souls). See Gen 1:20, for instance. The OT view of the soul is best summed up, in my opinion, as the animating principle of the body. If a thing is alive, it is alive because it has a soul. From there you can branch out into some broader studies of the OT view of life, both spiritual and physical. Something's life is closely associated with its breath (look up the word for spirit or wind--ruach) as well as with the blood. For this reason, animals were not considered alive--at least not in the same sense that animals, including humans, are.

Check out this book (you can read the important part online here). Starting on page 27 is a discussion on OT exegesis and the words nephesh and ruach. Good stuff.