Evidence for God from Science

PaulSacramento wrote: I do not hold organized religion in high standing and "the church" is made up of ALL believers and Galileo was supported by the church until he decided to get "cute" and insult his benefactor, or didn't you know about that part?
He was NOT persecuted at all, and the issues was that he couldn't prove it at the time.

He wasn't persecuted, but brought to trial.
Bible, the bible is true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_af ... e_argument

PaulSacramento wrote: People should know better. A fallible man can NOT be infallible.

If people should know better, why do we need a religious framework?

PaulSacramento wrote: Manslaughter is indirect murder? I though it was murder that was NOT premeditated?
People die and kill because of what their leaders say all the time, stupid I agree.

I agree, people die and kill because of what their leaders say, they also believe what they're told to believe.

PaulSacramento wrote: I am a christian and do NOT view muslims as crazy or all other religions as crazy.

Ok? So why aren't you a Muslim or another religion? You don't think they are wrong? According to other beliefs you would be going to their hell.
Have you experimented with another religion? How do you know the Christian religion is the correct religion? Faith?

PaulSacramento wrote:
That is their right and I am sure they have their reasons.

PaulSacramento wrote: Nope, to blasphemy the HS is the unforgivable sin.

http://christianity.about.com/od/faqhel ... ains_2.htm
"I believe, the only unforgivable sin is the rejection of Jesus Christ's offer of salvation, His free gift of eternal life, and thus, His forgiveness from sin."

OR: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/blasphemy
Simply saying "God Damnit", if that's the case I know a lot of Christians that are in trouble...

PaulSacramento wrote: We have a choice, WE HAVE a choice, it has never been taken away from us and we all have the choice to be "with God" or not.
As CS Lewis said:
Either we say to God, Thy will be done, or God says to Us, Thy will be done.


No I am NOT ok with ANYONE being lost from God and not because of Hell or any possible torment, but because to be lost from God is to be lost form a love that one can't even begin to fathom and I would NOT wish that loss on ANYONE.

We have a choice? Do the remote tribes that maybe heard the word Jesus Christ once have that choice?
You say you are a Christian, but you are NOT ok with anyone being lost from God. You would NOT wish that loss on ANYONE. But, you would go to Heaven knowing these are the rules, that others are burning for eternity.

Most logical people that disagree with a "policy" do not support it.
Wouldn't a true Christian say, hey, wait a minute, there are billions of people burning in agony for eternity. I do not support the torturing of people for all of eternity, people that may have heard the name Jesus Christ once in their lifetime but didn't grow up in a Christian family. Maybe they didn't hear of Christ at all, maybe their parents on the other side of the world influenced the person to deny Christianity. Maybe they died before they had the mental capacity to challenge the beliefs their family taught them and accept Christ?

How can one claim to be Christ like if they are willing to accept people suffering?

Icthus wrote:

snorider wrote:

You are actually using a tired and intellectually bankrupt argument that is used by most militant atheists. If your comparing Jesus to the easter bunny then you really are ignorant about the historicity of Jesus Christ and Christianity alltogether. Trust me, this isnt the first time I heard such a rediculous argument and it isnt the last. It shows me that your appealing to emotions moreso then reason or logic. Hence the comparison to the typical militant atheistic argument.
And we wonder why Inte3llects like William Lane Craig are exposing these arguments for what they are and doing it quite easily I might add.

William Craig vs Sam Harris:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqaHXKLRKzg

The History Channel Presents:

Banned from the Bible PI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZMNE7IE6bM

Banned from the Bible PII
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpHmpD62BW4

Lol at thinking you can get accurate history from the History Channel.

I agree, the book with the talking snake is much more accurate.

You are making various different issues and going the way we are going, well cause a page full of quotes and rebuttals and whatnots.
Can you focus on just one or two points at a time?

We have a choice? Do the remote tribes that maybe heard the word Jesus Christ once have that choice?
You say you are a Christian, but you are NOT ok with anyone being lost from God. You would NOT wish that loss on ANYONE. But, you would go to Heaven knowing these are the rules, that others are burning for eternity.

Who told you that those that have never heard the true message of Christ are condemned?

Most logical people that disagree with a "policy" do not support it.
Wouldn't a true Christian say, hey, wait a minute, there are billions of people burning in agony for eternity. I do not support the torturing of people for all of eternity, people that may have heard the name Jesus Christ once in their lifetime but didn't grow up in a Christian family. Maybe they didn't hear of Christ at all, maybe their parents on the other side of the world influenced the person to deny Christianity. Maybe they died before they had the mental capacity to challenge the beliefs their family taught them and accept Christ?

A "true" Christian knows that God is all-knowing, which means that If God exists then He knows WHO believes in Him and WHy and who doesn't and why not, in fact ONLY God can judge that because only God KNOWS the truth.
Then , IF there is a God and He is GOD, all those that He leaves to their own accord, He KNOWS far better than anyone else, if they are deserving of that.

How can one claim to be Christ like if they are willing to accept people suffering?

Not sure what you mean here...it doesn't take being or not being Christ-like to accept that there is suffering in this world.

snorider wrote:I agree, the book with the talking snake is much more accurate.

We mock that which we do not understand. Any legitimate point you might be making is completely drowned out by the closed-mindedness that drips from your words.

It is pointless to debate a man who is on fire and yet insists he is not so.

snorider wrote:

Do you have a point with those videos?
By the way, the views expressed on those "banned from the bible" clips have been debated over and over and I am still surprise that ANY still subscribes to them.
The gnostics got left behind simply because they were wrong in their view of Christ and were never viewed as authorative by the apostolic Chruch.
They were older than the NT books and letters, they were NOT authored by any apostle AND they had views that were obvioulsy NOT Judeo-Christian views and went against what was plainly stated in the books that were accepted by ALL churches as authoritative.

The Craig William video was a response to the previous post.

Obviously you hold the church in high standing, I suppose men of "authority" hold weight for you.
The church believed the Earth was the center of the Universe, they prosecuted the man for proving otherwise. You might know him. Galileo.

The pope is automatically given power in his position, what he says is taken seriously by most uneducated believers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7952829.stm

There is direct murder and indirect murder (manslaughter). How many people took the pope literally? How many died or are still dying because of what he said?

I believe that Christianity is outnumbered now isn't it? How many Muslims are there? Christians view billions of Muslims as crazy, all the other religions are simply crazy? Am I wrong?

How do you feel about people that believe in something other than Jesus Christ?

Isn't the one unforgivable sign the denial of the Holy Spirit? Not Murder, not child molestation, but not believing - unforgivable.

Let's say Heaven is real, that means Hell is real. As a Christian, are you ok with spending an eternity in Heaven knowing there are people burning in Hell? If so, that's the sickest thing I can think of. How can a Christian enjoy Heaven knowing there are people in terrible agony for all of eternity? Especially those that lived good lives but denied Jesus and chose another religion?

I'd like to make three points. 1) The Church's battle with Galileo isn't a fair example. Galileo's model was (at the time) observably indistinguishable from at least one of the other available models (that he was right wasn't obvious at the time, and he wasn't exactly a nice guy about it), and the Church didn't really persecute him that much. 2) Christians are more numerous than Muslims, and Christianity is growing at an extraordinary rate in Africa, South American, and East Asia. 3) You are mistaken in thinking that we Christians regard not believing as the sin that earns them damnation. It is all the other sins that do that. Faith can bring forgiveness. If, for example, you are playing Monopoly, and you land on "Go To Jail" and don't have a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" you have to go to jail. Your crime is that you landed on "Go To Jail" not that you don't have the card. It's sort of a simplistic example, though.

Icthus wrote:

snorider wrote:

Do you have a point with those videos?
By the way, the views expressed on those "banned from the bible" clips have been debated over and over and I am still surprise that ANY still subscribes to them.
The gnostics got left behind simply because they were wrong in their view of Christ and were never viewed as authorative by the apostolic Chruch.
They were older than the NT books and letters, they were NOT authored by any apostle AND they had views that were obvioulsy NOT Judeo-Christian views and went against what was plainly stated in the books that were accepted by ALL churches as authoritative.

The Craig William video was a response to the previous post.

Obviously you hold the church in high standing, I suppose men of "authority" hold weight for you.
The church believed the Earth was the center of the Universe, they prosecuted the man for proving otherwise. You might know him. Galileo.

The pope is automatically given power in his position, what he says is taken seriously by most uneducated believers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7952829.stm

There is direct murder and indirect murder (manslaughter). How many people took the pope literally? How many died or are still dying because of what he said?

I believe that Christianity is outnumbered now isn't it? How many Muslims are there? Christians view billions of Muslims as crazy, all the other religions are simply crazy? Am I wrong?

How do you feel about people that believe in something other than Jesus Christ?

Isn't the one unforgivable sign the denial of the Holy Spirit? Not Murder, not child molestation, but not believing - unforgivable.

Let's say Heaven is real, that means Hell is real. As a Christian, are you ok with spending an eternity in Heaven knowing there are people burning in Hell? If so, that's the sickest thing I can think of. How can a Christian enjoy Heaven knowing there are people in terrible agony for all of eternity? Especially those that lived good lives but denied Jesus and chose another religion?

I'd like to make three points. 1) The Church's battle with Galileo isn't a fair example. Galileo's model was (at the time) observably indistinguishable from at least one of the other available models (that he was right wasn't obvious at the time, and he wasn't exactly a nice guy about it), and the Church didn't really persecute him that much. 2) Christians are more numerous than Muslims, and Christianity is growing at an extraordinary rate in Africa, South American, and East Asia. 3) You are mistaken in thinking that we Christians regard not believing as the sin that earns them damnation. It is all the other sins that do that. Faith can bring forgiveness. If, for example, you are playing Monopoly, and you land on "Go To Jail" and don't have a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" you have to go to jail. Your crime is that you landed on "Go To Jail" not that you don't have the card. It's sort of a simplistic example, though.

Thanks for the reply,

1)-
What of the witchcraft described in the bible and its punishment? I was using Galileo as an example, of recent issues. Galileo's finding's did not agree with the bible, obviously there were problems. The problem is, the bible is fixed. Changes cannot be made to the bible at the present day. Or am I wrong about that?

2)-
Statistically speaking you're correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re ... opulations
Now, the question is why do we have any violence at all because of religion? It's a huge waste of man power.
There are Christian extremists that bomb abortion clinics in the name of the Christian religion.

Why do we need to do things in God's name at all? How many man hours have we wasted as a species with our hands clasped rather than a book in our hand or doing something physically to make a difference?
A prayer is caring without doing anything at all.

3)-
Everyone should be responsible for their actions, murderers, rapists, pedophiles have the possibility for redemption. A non-believer, is worse than all of the previous three as stated, unforgivable sin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iSwhHMxDh4

1)-
What of the witchcraft described in the bible and its punishment? I was using Galileo as an example, of recent issues. Galileo's finding's did not agree with the bible, obviously there were problems. The problem is, the bible is fixed. Changes cannot be made to the bible at the present day. Or am I wrong about that?

Galileo's situation has been grossly overblown but yes, he was forced to recant his position by the church because he couldn't prove it.
The pope took it personally since, while he was a supporter of Galileo, Galileo found it cool to make fun of him in a caricature while explaining his views.
The bible is fixed in terms of the books viewed as canon, even though different religions do have different canons BUT the INTERPRETATION of bible text is NOT fixed and can/has changed.
We need to remember that the bible was NOT always viewed as "literal and concrete" in ALL it's writings ( see Augustine's example of his view on the literal interpretation of Genesis).

Snorider did you actually study the catholic faith before you left it?
I actually did when I was looking into Protestantism. Do you understand that the pope can only speak from authority when he is speaking from the chair of Peter?

As far as other religions like Islam is concerned, there is only one truth.
You say you left Catholicism when you started reading your bible. I stayed a catholic because I read the bible and started to read about how the earliest were taught to believe from the apostles, men such as Clement of Rome , polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch . Without these men and others we would have been left to our own private interpretations of scripture.

If you really want to know the catholic faith, and not your understanding of it there are resources that can better explain it to you like this http://www.scripturecatholic.com
Reading the bible alone without understanding sacred tradition won't give you the fullest interpretation of the bible.

And could you please stop bringing the Easter bunny and tooth fairy arguments.
These aren't thought provoking at all and you know it.

bippy123 wrote:Snorider did you actually study the catholic faith before you left it?
I actually did when I was looking into Protestantism. Do you understand that the pope can only speak from authority when he is speaking from the chair of Peter?

Did you know that Peter pan can only fly with fairy dust?

What evidence do you have for your argument compared to mine?

bippy123 wrote: As far as other religions like Islam is concerned, there is only one truth.
You say you left Catholicism when you started reading your bible. I stayed a catholic because I read the bible and started to read about how the earliest were taught to believe from the apostles, men such as Clement of Rome , polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch . Without these men and others we would have been left to our own private interpretations of scripture.

Ah, without these men we would have been left with our own private interpretations of scripture written by men.

bippy123 wrote: If you really want to know the catholic faith, and not your understanding of it there are resources that can better explain it to you like this http://www.scripturecatholic.com
Reading the bible alone without understanding sacred tradition won't give you the fullest interpretation of the bible.

Reading the bible alone won't do it? Hmmm. Now I was confirmed Catholic, but why do you pick the Catholic religion? Specifically? Why not Mormon? Baptist?

bippy123 wrote: And could you please stop bringing the Easter bunny and tooth fairy arguments.
These aren't thought provoking at all and you know it.

Can you prove to me that your God is more real than the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy? I'll be happy to stop comparing the two.

Enjoy one of the many religious texts of many faiths.

If anything I praise Apollo, without sun there wouldn't be life. But, take your pick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_deity

Jordan

Can you prove to me that your God is more real than the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy? I'll be happy to stop comparing the two.

Thats like saying prove to me the sun exists, we can provide all the evidence in the world but if someone just doesn't want to believe the sun exists then what is the use.

You seem to have already made up your mind, why are you here grinding your axe, what use is this to you, what are you hoping to achive?

Dan

Sno I picked the catholic church because of my studies of the early Christians and how the disciples of the apostles were taught to worship by the apostles, but all Christians who hold to the orthodox Christian position (catholic, Protestant, orthodox etc etc) are all Christians because of the belief in the trinity, the resurrection etc etc. They are all my Christian brothers and sisters.

Your view of the Gnostics isn't totally accurate, because the gnostic beliefs came a few centuries later.There was a reason why the early apostolic church called the Gnostics heretics .

One reason is that, as I said before the historicity of the gnostic sect is extremely poor compared to the early church. Another is that the apostolic teachings were highly guarded a passed down from generationto generation with such zeal and conviction that they gave it all they had to make sure it was passed down.

In 110 ad ignatius of Antioch was given 2 choices , to deny Jesus and bow down to the roman Gods, or stay true to his faith and die in the coliseum . Ignatius choose to die for his faith in the resurrected Christ and be died in a very gruesome manner. He was eaten by lions. Why am I giving you this example sno?
Because Ignatius of Antioch was a student of John the Apostle, who was taught the early Christian faith from one of Jesus's 12 himself . No where in his letters and teachings did ignatius teach anythingeven close to the gnostic beliefs.
Polycarp, another student of the apostles wasn't never taught gnostic teachings.
In fact none of the students of the apostles were taught to believe in the gnostic teachings from Clement of Rome in 80ad to Augustine in the early 5th century.

Most if not all of these early Christians died a martyrs death to pass down what the apostles passed down to them.
Don't take my word, read about them yourself.

The apostles were given the power to preach the gospels infallibly, meaning an authoritative interpretation by Christ( Peter and the keys) because Christ knew that without an authoritative interpreter that was guided by the holy spirit we would splinter into many different churches ( just as it has happened today).

Just don't discount the truth of Christianity until you fully research Christian history and realize the many people starting with the apostles and the early Christians who willingly gave their lives so that the good news of the word would be available to you today.

Approach the Christian faith with an open mind and a determination to want to know God.
If you do this with humility God will never turn you away.
From the way you have been responding in this forum you haven't yet displayed the humility and open mind of a seeker.
I really hope you open your heart my friend. There will be nothing more important to your life then this.

snorider wrote:Can you prove to me that your God is more real than the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy?

Snorider, I don't believe I could prove that the Christian God is more real to you than the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy. People have been arguing and debating this subject for centuries, so even if I wrote a thousand pages of in-depth logical intellectualism, it would probably not convince you. I do believe Jesus is God and is the only God because I have faith, that is trust, that the Biblical story is true and that Jesus Christ is not a liar.

The best I can do is to relate to you my own personal experience as evidence.

When I was in my early twenties a good friend of mine who knew I believed in God asked me this question:

"If you could ask God one question, what would that question be?"

So I answered, "God, would you die for me?"

And she said, "Why would you ask God that question?"

And I replied, "Well if God is God and God is all powerful, including having power over death which God should have if God is God, then God should have the ability to die. If God does not have the ability or willingness for that matter to die, then that God cannot be God."

Snorider, I do not see the ability of any other god to answer my question except for Jesus Christ. Therefore, symbolically speaking, I packaged away all the other gods into a box, closed the lid and wrote 'created gods' on the top.

Jesus not only died for me, it's the way He died that really makes an impact for me. Jesus could have drank poison, jumped off a mountain, fell on a sword, caused a wasting disease to kill him. He could have been hung, garroted, killed by lions etc.

Jesus allowed Himself to be tortured to death. You know, maybe there might be one other god that would die for me,(even though none come to mind) however, I just don't see another historical god willing to be endure the humiliation and torture that Christ went through on the cross. Crucifixion was so horrifying that even the cruel Roman empire outlawed it. Just imagine after being beaten, spit on, scourged, having a crown of thorns pounded into your head, forced to carry a heavy piece of wood for a mile on your raw bleeding back on bare feet while being beaten and whipped and then stripped naked and crucified, and while you are hanging there in public, to be scorned and laughed at as you are bleeding to death in excruciating pain. Crucifixion was an utterly offensive affair, 'obscene' in the original sense of the word. Crucifixion was a "status degradation ritual" designed to humiliate in every way, including the symbolic pinioning of hands and legs signifying a loss of power, and loss of ability to control the body in various ways, including befouling one's self with excrement.

However, with Jesus the cross was not the end. I tell you Snorider, if I was God, I would have crucified the entire human race due to their grievous savagery and sat there and laughed while I had a smoke and a drink. The Christian God is unique in that the punishment that we fully deserved, for rejecting the God that created us in love, God instead decided to perform our fate on His very own and only beloved Son.

Christ told his followers even before it happened that he was going to be tortured and killed but that he would come back to life three days and nights later. Imagine that Snorider, it was this same Jesus who, among many other remarkable things, said and repeated something which, proceeding from any other being would have condemned him at once as either a bloated egotist or a dangerously unbalanced person...when He said He himself would rise again from the dead, the third day after He was crucified. He said something that only a fool would dare say, if he expected longer the devotion of any disciples—unless He was sure He was going to rise. No founder of any world religion known to men ever dared say a thing like that!

Snorider, when I read Jesus' words even compared to any of the other texts I read by supposed holy men and gods, that there is something so pure and frank and noble about Him that to doubt His sincerity would be like doubting the brightness of the sun.

And the thing about Jesus is not only did He die for me but he died for everyone and that includes YOU.

The following are links to the movie, 'The Gospel of John'. I humbly ask you to watch it, it's about 2 and 1/2 hours long.

The Gospel of John part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRB0EH3lA3w

The Gospel of John part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-P4x-WpwSs

And this is a lecture from UCLA

Christianity and the Tooth Fairy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feqC_GNL2fw

The other unique thing about Christianity is that Christ out of all gods offers me forgiveness for the wrongs I do. No other belief system offers me that. And I know you will probably bring up the concept of Hell. I am an Annhilationist; not a Hellist. Not all Christians believe in a burning Hell, just like not all Christians believe in the Rapture theory or Young Earth Creationism. But we ALL believe in Christ. If you think I don't care Sno, I wouldn't have sat here in front of my comp and typed out this response.

So it's up to you to decide. I will and already have prayed for you.

Katabole wrote:

snorider wrote:Can you prove to me that your God is more real than the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy?

Katabole wrote:Snorider, I don't believe I could prove that the Christian God is more real to you than the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy. People have been arguing and debating this subject for centuries, so even if I wrote a thousand pages of in-depth logical intellectualism, it would probably not convince you. I do believe Jesus is God and is the only God because I have faith, that is trust, that the Biblical story is true and that Jesus Christ is not a liar.

The best I can do is to relate to you my own personal experience as evidence.

When I was in my early twenties a good friend of mine who knew I believed in God asked me this question:

"If you could ask God one question, what would that question be?"

So I answered, "God, would you die for me?"

And she said, "Why would you ask God that question?"

And I replied, "Well if God is God and God is all powerful, including having power over death which God should have if God is God, then God should have the ability to die. If God does not have the ability or willingness for that matter to die, then that God cannot be God."

I would have asked: "God, you gave us free will but everything is according to your divine plan, these are mutually exclusive. Why the contradiction?"

Katabole wrote: Snorider, I do not see the ability of any other god to answer my question except for Jesus Christ. Therefore, symbolically speaking, I packaged away all the other gods into a box, closed the lid and wrote 'created gods' on the top.

Now, parts of the Bible, Jesus claims to not be God, another part of the Bible he claims to be part of the trinity.
I don't understand how you can simply disregard all other Gods? Did you study about them and then disregard? Why did billions of others believe in those Gods?


Jesus not only died for me, it's the way He died that really makes an impact for me. Jesus could have drank poison, jumped off a mountain, fell on a sword, caused a wasting disease to kill him. He could have been hung, garroted, killed by lions etc.

Jesus allowed Himself to be tortured to death. You know, maybe there might be one other god that would die for me,(even though none come to mind) however, I just don't see another historical god willing to be endure the humiliation and torture that Christ went through on the cross. Crucifixion was so horrifying that even the cruel Roman empire outlawed it. Just imagine after being beaten, spit on, scourged, having a crown of thorns pounded into your head, forced to carry a heavy piece of wood for a mile on your raw bleeding back on bare feet while being beaten and whipped and then stripped naked and crucified, and while you are hanging there in public, to be scorned and laughed at as you are bleeding to death in excruciating pain. Crucifixion was an utterly offensive affair, 'obscene' in the original sense of the word. Crucifixion was a "status degradation ritual" designed to humiliate in every way, including the symbolic pinioning of hands and legs signifying a loss of power, and loss of ability to control the body in various ways, including befouling one's self with excrement.

Now, if you thought someone might be Jesus, would you abandon your family to follow him?
Why would someone of such pure goodness ask anyone to abandon their family? (Luke 14:26) (Luke 14:33)
I suppose you could ask him to kill a fig tree as proof. (Mark 11:12-14)
Jesus wasn't as good as the churches make him out to be. He asked his disciples to abandon their family. In his final moments of death he screamed out "Father, why have you forsaken me". This was not a planned event.
Now, the son of God knowing he would be immortal beyond this life is hardly a sacrifice. If this was your one and only life, that would be a sacrifice.


However, with Jesus the cross was not the end. I tell you Snorider, if I was God, I would have crucified the entire human race due to their grievous savagery and sat there and laughed while I had a smoke and a drink. The Christian God is unique in that the punishment that we fully deserved, for rejecting the God that created us in love, God instead decided to perform our fate on His very own and only beloved Son.

Christ told his followers even before it happened that he was going to be tortured and killed but that he would come back to life three days and nights later. Imagine that Snorider, it was this same Jesus who, among many other remarkable things, said and repeated something which, proceeding from any other being would have condemned him at once as either a bloated egotist or a dangerously unbalanced person...when He said He himself would rise again from the dead, the third day after He was crucified. He said something that only a fool would dare say, if he expected longer the devotion of any disciples—unless He was sure He was going to rise. No founder of any world religion known to men ever dared say a thing like that!

Snorider, when I read Jesus' words even compared to any of the other texts I read by supposed holy men and gods, that there is something so pure and frank and noble about Him that to doubt His sincerity would be like doubting the brightness of the sun.

And the thing about Jesus is not only did He die for me but he died for everyone and that includes YOU.

The following are links to the movie, 'The Gospel of John'. I humbly ask you to watch it, it's about 2 and 1/2 hours long.

The Gospel of John part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRB0EH3lA3w

The Gospel of John part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-P4x-WpwSs

And this is a lecture from UCLA

Christianity and the Tooth Fairy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feqC_GNL2fw

The other unique thing about Christianity is that Christ out of all gods offers me forgiveness for the wrongs I do. No other belief system offers me that. And I know you will probably bring up the concept of Hell. I am an Annhilationist; not a Hellist. Not all Christians believe in a burning Hell, just like not all Christians believe in the Rapture theory or Young Earth Creationism. But we ALL believe in Christ. If you think I don't care Sno, I wouldn't have sat here in front of my comp and typed out this response.


So it's up to you to decide. I will and already have prayed for you.

I'm not quite sure how you are a "Annhilationist", Hell wasn't mentioned in the old testament, Hell was only known via Jesus Christ and the New Testament.


Here is the major problem I have with superstition, if we allow our children to accept an idea without evidence what is to keep them from excepting other ideas that are not also not based on evidence?


Thank you for your reply, Scientifically prayer has been studied with controlled groups and has been proven not to work. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficacy_of_prayer) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf5q6VFn17o)
I will donate towards your Medical bills.

I will watch the videos you posted, and thank you for the reply.

I can't say that I will pray for you, but I will think for you,
Jordan

A point to ponder:


If I walked up to your door claiming to be Jesus, asked you to leave your family to become my disciple would you do it?

If someone else walked up to your door claiming the same thing. What would you do?

This is not a ridiculous question. This happened.


Thanks,
Jordan

A point to ponder:


If I walked up to your door claiming to be Jesus, asked you to leave your family to become my disciple would you do it?

If someone else walked up to your door claiming the same thing. What would you do?

This is not a ridiculous question. This happened.

Matthew 24:27, Matthew 24:30, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 4:17 indicate it will be a big event and everyone will know at once including non believers..... so if someone came to my door making that claim and no one else knew about it, well i guess it would be bogus wouldn't it.


Dan