"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
John, you have been shown numerous times that one must believe on the Jesus that has the power to save. The only Jesus that fits that bill, is the biblical Jesus who is God incarnate. Any other jesus, and the jesus you put YOUR faith in, is: 1) not God 2) cannot save 3) an idolThere is nothing in all of scripture that implies for salvation, that one must believe that Jesus is God.
What does the bible say who Jesus is?1stjohn0666 wrote:There is nothing in all of scripture that implies for salvation, that one must believe that Jesus is God. The Athanasian Creed however does state that one must believe that Jesus is God to be saved. The Creed is far from being scripture.
John 8:23-241stjohn0666 wrote:There is nothing in all of scripture that implies for salvation, that one must believe that Jesus is God. The Athanasian Creed however does state that one must believe that Jesus is God to be saved. The Creed is far from being scripture.
Yes it does …1stjohn0666 wrote:I believe what the bible says "believe that I am he" (the Messiah) If salvation is only found by believing that Jesus is God, I certainly want to see that doctrine "FROM" the bible.
The phrases used in the NT – Son of Man, Son of God refer to, God coming in human form to completely identified with us (Isaiah 7:14 – Isa 9:6 – Gen 3:15 –Isa 43:10 – Isa 45:18c) in order to reconcile us back to Himself. Son of God /son of Man – God and man reconciled.Jewish New Testament Commentary
John 3:16
This perhaps most famous and most quoted of verses in the New Testament epitomizes the truth of God that has come to Jews and Gentiles alike in Yeshua the Messiah. It teaches that
(1) God loves his creation, the world;
(2) to love is to give, to love much is to give much, and God loves the world so much that he gave what is most precious to him;
(3) Yeshua was fully aware in advance that he would die as God's own sacrifice;
(4) Yeshua knew that he was uniquely God's son;
(5) the destiny of man when he relies on himself and does not trust in Yeshua is total destruction (Greek apollumi, "be ruined, destroyed, lost")-not cessation of conscious existence, but the eternal suffering that is the inevitable consequence of sin; and
(6) the destiny of an individual who trusts in Yeshua is everlasting life-not only in the future but right now-not just survival beyond the grave, which everyone has (John 5:28-29; Rev 20:4-5, Rev 20:12-15), but positive life "in" Yeshua (John 1:4, John 11:25-26).
Trusting in Yeshua is not mere intellectual acknowledge-ment but adherence to, commitment to, trust in, faith in, reliance upon Yeshua as fully human, completely identified with us, and at the same time fully divine, completely identified with God.
Isa 48:11 For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another.
Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.
Isa 48:12 "Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.
Rev 1:17, 18 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me,
Isa 43:10, 11 "You are My witnesses," says the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.
Isa 45:21-23 Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. 22 "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. 23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath. (note John 1:1, 14c)
Php 2:10-11 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Isa 46:9, "Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me…"
Hosea 13:4, "Yet I have been the LORD your God Since the land of Egypt; And you were not to know any god except Me, For there is no savior besides Me."
John 4:42, "and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world."
Bible quotes from NASB and NKJV
I asked a question a few pages back that I'm not sure you answered. Why was Jesus effective in bringing about salvation when countless other prophets before him like Moses didn't (other than being God's son, which for all intents and purposes we all are)?1stjohn0666 wrote:John 17:4 is needed to support John 17:5. Jesus accomplished what his God and Father had commissioned him. Then Jesus asks for the reward. Treasures are stored up in heaven, and "come down" from heaven. There is a big difference between being foreordained or predestined and actually preexisting. We can make a thread for a preexistence discussion.
John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was..." NKJV1stjohn0666 wrote:John 17:4 is needed to support John 17:5. Jesus accomplished what his God and Father had commissioned him. Then Jesus asks for the reward. Treasures are stored up in heaven, and "come down" from heaven. There is a big difference between being foreordained or predestined and actually preexisting. We can make a thread for a preexistence discussion.
Jesus came forth from the Tri-part nature of the Godhead – came forth from the Tri-part nature of HaElohim – just as the OT teaches about God’s nature of being God – the self existing One. Jesus is the known as the second person of the Divine Trinity - Because of this, John 1:1, 14 makes sense as does Heb 1:3Vincent’s’ Word Studies
John 8:42
I proceeded forth - from God (εκ του Θεου εξηλθον)
Rev., came forth. The phrase occurs only here and in Joh_16:28. Εξελθειν is found in John 13:3; John 16:30, and emphasizes the idea of separation; a going from God to whom He was to return (and goeth unto God). Εξελθειν παρά (John 16:27; John 17:8), is going from beside, implying personal fellowship with God. Εξελθειν εκ, here, emphasizes the idea of essential, community of being: “I came forth out of.”
I'm sorry but is this in response to someone? Because I can't tell. Please quote the person you are responding to with proper reference.1stjohn0666 wrote:An image of a thing is not the thing itself. We can look in a mirror and know for certain that our reflection is not "another" me with it's own will.
Regarding Numbers 23:19 – context, context, context is all about lying and God did not lie when he said these things: Genesis 3:15, John 17:5, Titus 2:13, Isa 45:21-23, Php 2:10-11. Your quote is out of context and for someone with a PhD to do this speaks volumes about the type of learning that came with attaining the PhD.1stjohn0666 wrote:I love the verse Numbers 23:19