Evidence for God from Science

Posted: **Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:49 am**

ultimate777,

I am going to write to you a longer post. So, anticipate that. Today I have no time, I for now just fixed the quotes.

Posted: **Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:02 am**

ultimate777 wrote:There is a book: Divinity of Doubt: The God Question by Vincent Bugliosi, which few true believers can read. Of those few, few can sincerely try to understand it. Of those few, few can understand it. Of those few, few can refute it. Maybe the best thing for you to do is just take the easy way out and not even try. But maybe, just maybe, in ways I cannot articulate, if you don't take the easy way out you can accomplish many things worthwhile.

ultimate - you have yet to state any point of question to this thread - so to be honest what do you expect us to do. Are you just saying that this book exists - then fine - whoppie!! Is there a question that this book brings up that you want to talk about? Then state it.

Do not just lead with an ambigious opening post then expect us to decipher what it is all about = then insult us for not getting you.

Make a point or explain yourself properly or this thread may be deleted.

Posted: **Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:29 am**

ultimate777 wrote:
ultimate777 wrote:Read the book if you really want to know. I cannot speak for him, because I am bad at that sort of thing.

PaulSacramento wrote: Typically when a person suggest to others to read a book, they tend to be able to explain why they ( the others) should invest their time in reading it.
Let me put it this way:

I have two amazing girls and a wonderful wife and very limited time, what in THIS BOOK deserves that they take "second place" to it with my limited time?
I hope this is what you need.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-sch ... 47230.html

I would have liked YOUR view on it but ok.
First off, I think the reviewer should NOT comment on things he doesn't know much about ( His comment on what Theology is, is pretty lame and quite wrong).
That said, it does peak my curiosity somewhat.
Although it seems to imply that this book is nothing but a book that points out the quite obvious issues that both belief systems and non-belief have, in short: PEOPLE.

Posted: **Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:07 am**

B. W. wrote:
ultimate777 wrote:Read the book if you really want to know. I cannot speak for him, because I am bad at that sort of thing.

PaulSacramento wrote: Typically when a person suggest to others to read a book, they tend to be able to explain why they ( the others) should invest their time in reading it.
Let me put it this way:

I have two amazing girls and a wonderful wife and very limited time, what in THIS BOOK deserves that they take "second place" to it with my limited time?

ultimate777 wrote: I hope this is what you need.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-sch ... 47230.html
In regard to article - that is what bad doctrine does to a person...

?

Posted: **Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:20 am**

Silvertusk wrote:
ultimate777 wrote:There is a book: Divinity of Doubt: The God Question by Vincent Bugliosi, which few true believers can read. Of those few, few can sincerely try to understand it. Of those few, few can understand it. Of those few, few can refute it. Maybe the best thing for you to do is just take the easy way out and not even try. But maybe, just maybe, in ways I cannot articulate, if you don't take the easy way out you can accomplish many things worthwhile.
ultimate - you have yet to state any point of question to this thread - so to be honest what do you expect us to do. Are you just saying that this book exists - then fine - whoppie!! Is there a question that this book brings up that you want to talk about? Then state it.

Do not just lead with an ambigious opening post then expect us to decipher what it is all about = then insult us for not getting you.

Make a point or explain yourself properly or this thread may be deleted.

My point is refute this book if you can to my satisfaction. However if you think I am leading with an ambigious opening post then expecting you to decipher what it is all about, then insulting you for not getting me, maybe that's just the way I do things like this, and if you feel this thread should be deleted because of that and you can do so, then do what you think you have to do. Maybe if you all can't take me on my own terms I don't need to be here.

Posted: **Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:47 am**

ultimate777 wrote:
Silvertusk wrote:
ultimate777 wrote:There is a book: Divinity of Doubt: The God Question by Vincent Bugliosi, which few true believers can read. Of those few, few can sincerely try to understand it. Of those few, few can understand it. Of those few, few can refute it. Maybe the best thing for you to do is just take the easy way out and not even try. But maybe, just maybe, in ways I cannot articulate, if you don't take the easy way out you can accomplish many things worthwhile.
ultimate - you have yet to state any point of question to this thread - so to be honest what do you expect us to do. Are you just saying that this book exists - then fine - whoppie!! Is there a question that this book brings up that you want to talk about? Then state it.

Do not just lead with an ambigious opening post then expect us to decipher what it is all about = then insult us for not getting you.

Make a point or explain yourself properly or this thread may be deleted.
My point is refute this book if you can to my satisfaction. However if you think I am leading with an ambigious opening post then expecting you to decipher what it is all about, then insulting you for not getting me, maybe that's just the way I do things like this, and if you feel this thread should be deleted because of that and you can do so, then do what you think you have to do. Maybe if you all can't take me on my own terms I don't need to be here.

Saying a lot about the type of person you are here.

Posted: **Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:44 am**

ultimate777 wrote:
Silvertusk wrote:
ultimate777 wrote:There is a book: Divinity of Doubt: The God Question by Vincent Bugliosi, which few true believers can read. Of those few, few can sincerely try to understand it. Of those few, few can understand it. Of those few, few can refute it. Maybe the best thing for you to do is just take the easy way out and not even try. But maybe, just maybe, in ways I cannot articulate, if you don't take the easy way out you can accomplish many things worthwhile.
ultimate - you have yet to state any point of question to this thread - so to be honest what do you expect us to do. Are you just saying that this book exists - then fine - whoppie!! Is there a question that this book brings up that you want to talk about? Then state it.

Do not just lead with an ambigious opening post then expect us to decipher what it is all about = then insult us for not getting you.

Make a point or explain yourself properly or this thread may be deleted.
My point is refute this book if you can to my satisfaction. However if you think I am leading with an ambigious opening post then expecting you to decipher what it is all about, then insulting you for not getting me, maybe that's just the way I do things like this, and if you feel this thread should be deleted because of that and you can do so, then do what you think you have to do. Maybe if you all can't take me on my own terms I don't need to be here.

Nothing wrong with asking questions

Ultimate, I think it is all about what kind of evidence Vincent considers to be considered as true evidence.
Why shouldn't eye witness testimony and personal experiences be considered evidences for God.Why shouldn't miracles be counted as evidence. Scientism is a much too narrow worldview to uncover wisdom and truth.

You guys know about the story I mentioned about my grandfather being saved from being murdered and buried alive by Saint Joseph , of which his aunt predicted in a vision in her dream. Few days before. Now is there a way for science to prove it? No way.
But every fiber in my dads being to,d him that his grandfather (who never exaggerated) was telling the truth, and if my dad believed him it was good enough for me since I know my dad.

Just because something can't be proven in a lab doesn't mean it didnt happen.
But also remember that in everything we do or believe in Faith is a must. Without faith there is no love.

Posted: **Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:57 am**

1over137 wrote:Here is one opinion: http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.sk/2011/07/ ... ty-of.html

If Vincent said religion makes no sense then he really doesn't understand religion. Lol
Religion has always been the search for truth, and he's assuming that God didn't give us religion , which I believe he is wrong about.
Do you love your parents? If no, why not?
If yes can you prove it to me?
Of course you can't but you still know that you love them, and your 100% sure of it.
This is spiritual wisdom at work.
Yet few people on earth would say that the person that loves his parents makes no sense at all?

Posted: **Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:33 am**

ultimate777,

As I promised, I now took the time and wrote some longer post to you.

So, below are quotes in chronological order:

* * * * *

ultimate777 wrote: There is a book: Divinity of Doubt: The God Question by Vincent Bugliosi, which few true believers can read. Of those few, few can sincerely try to understand it. Of those few, few can understand it. Of those few, few can refute it. Maybe the best thing for you to do is just take the easy way out and not even try. But maybe, just maybe, in ways I cannot articulate, if you don't take the easy way out you can accomplish many things worthwhile.

ultimate777 wrote: I would be relieved to be wrong about the level of the criticism of Bugliosi would be here, but so far
I am not. The critics here have quite carefully stepped in his "trap". If you don't know what I mean I won't do your work for you. Read the book and hopefully you'll find out.

ultimate777 wrote:
I'm not promoting it, I'm just telling you all its out there, and its existence should be recognized. What I really hope is someone can make a case against it that is not just satisfactory to the rest of the world but is satisfactory to me. In fact to be told that its satisfactory to others, therefore it should be satisfactory to me will be most unfelpful. If you want to make a hostile act against me, you could do worse Any hair splitting might even be worse. I'm not as good at dealing with hair splitting as some

ultimate777 wrote: Hiding, what's that about?

I am interested in Bugliosi. I think he has done more for the welfare of the human race and to thwart the devil than many of his detractors here can even dream about. I met him once.

A couple of weeks ago I was listening to an old Art Bell "Coast to Coast" radio show. Bugliosi was on it promoting his book about his dismay at the O.J. Simpson verdict. On the internet I went to my public library's web page to see about getting that book. I found out about the agnosic book there.

ultimate777 wrote:
1over137 wrote: Tell us please, if for you it was really worthwhile to read it and why.
The verdict is still out.

ultimate777 wrote:
1over137 wrote: And last question: do you consider yourself to belong to the few of the few?
Not now, maybe if people can handle this stuff to my satisfaction, which I would welcome.

ultimate777 wrote: Read the book if you really want to know. I cannot speak for him, because I am bad at that sort of thing.

1over137 wrote: I suppose you have read that book, so we all expected that you say some Bugliosi's ideas. But we haven't seen them yet. Or, you just wanted to make a post that such book exists and hoped that someone has read it and would express his opinions? If so, why you did not tell in the initial post? We are confused about what your point was?

You have to anticipate that when you say A, esp. present non-Christian book, we would like to hear also B. This is Christian forum, so do not expect that we will just leave here publicity for such book and leave it. NO!

I hope you understand.

ultimate777 wrote: I think I have already talked a lot about it and its time for you all to do some research about it or admit you are unable or unwilling to do so.

ultimate777 wrote: My point is refute this book if you can to my satisfaction. However if you think I am leading with an ambigious opening post then expecting you to decipher what it is all about, then insulting you for not getting me, maybe that's just the way I do things like this, and if you feel this thread should be deleted because of that and you can do so, then do what you think you have to do. Maybe if you all can't take me on my own terms I don't need to be here.

* * * * *

Now the core of my post to you:

Well, what are your own terms? Should we now buy the book and as we read some wrong statements there put our posts on that? Please, answer.
Also, if you sincere wish that someone refutes the book to your satisfaction, then it would be expected you gave that person a chance.

Saying that you are "bad at that sort of thing" does not free you from the responsibility to say what the (non-Christian) book says or share quotes from that book.
Well, before I said that it sounds that you are hiding, because you are unwilling to share Bugliosi's statements from that book. Question is what are you really afraid of. Maybe, of being not understood by posters on this forum. In that case, it is nothing unusual that people of different personalities do not understand each other. (Note: this not understanding should be only initial, as Christians are to behave like brothers and try to understand each other and help each other.) (Mmm, such a question to you: do you have some fellow member here on the forum? When I joined I found one and that one helped me with issues arised)

I am giving you 2 options:
1. You tell finally something from that book.
2. You do not tell us. But in that case I will put a note in your initial post sounding like this:
[note by moderator: poster did not share his own views on the non-Christian book, nor he quoted from the book. The thread is moreless only the discussion of the poster's attitude.]

You choose.

Lastly, I will make you a mirror and say following words resembling your attitude:

There is a Christian book: Kris Lundgaard: The Enemy Within: Straight Talk About the Power and Defeat of Sin, which not all true believers can read. Maybe the best thing for you to do is just take the easy way out and not even try. But maybe, just maybe, in ways I cannot articulate, if you don't take the easy way out you can accomplish many things worthwhile.

Well, ultimate777, I tell you in advance: the book is about exposing our own sins and providing ways to defeat them. Hope you take that book one day.

May God bless you in your following steps in your life,
1over137.

---

Note: Dear moderator colleagues: please do not delete this thread as it can serve as exemplary thread.

Posted: **Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:59 pm**

Silvertusk wrote:
ultimate777 wrote:
Silvertusk wrote:
ultimate777 wrote:There is a book: Divinity of Doubt: The God Question by Vincent Bugliosi, which few true believers can read. Of those few, few can sincerely try to understand it. Of those few, few can understand it. Of those few, few can refute it. Maybe the best thing for you to do is just take the easy way out and not even try. But maybe, just maybe, in ways I cannot articulate, if you don't take the easy way out you can accomplish many things worthwhile.
ultimate - you have yet to state any point of question to this thread - so to be honest what do you expect us to do. Are you just saying that this book exists - then fine - whoppie!! Is there a question that this book brings up that you want to talk about? Then state it.

Do not just lead with an ambigious opening post then expect us to decipher what it is all about = then insult us for not getting you.

Make a point or explain yourself properly or this thread may be deleted.
My point is refute this book if you can to my satisfaction. However if you think I am leading with an ambigious opening post then expecting you to decipher what it is all about, then insulting you for not getting me, maybe that's just the way I do things like this, and if you feel this thread should be deleted because of that and you can do so, then do what you think you have to do. Maybe if you all can't take me on my own terms I don't need to be here.
Saying a lot about the type of person you are here.

Only One is fit to judge me and you are not Him.

Posted: **Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:28 pm**

1over137 wrote:ultimate777,

I am going to write to you a longer post. So, anticipate that. Today I have no time, I for now just fixed the quotes.

This thing will only handle so many quotes.

The only thing I am hiding from and afraid of is all the work needed to give the quotes etc. If this book were online I could do much better. If I thought there was a need to hide anything about this book I wouldn't even have given it enough creedence to start this.

I found this you might be interested in.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9650 ... y-of-doubt

I really don't understand the criticism hardly at all. But there are lots of things I couldn't understand that I later have thought might be true. They give it a good try, and who knows, if having read the book and found flaws in its reasoning, maybe others could and they would be correct. It is such a responsibility knowing everything. You feel compelled to act on what you know. Maybe finding that you don't have such resposibility would be quite refreshing

Posted: **Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:01 pm**

ultimate777 wrote:
1over137 wrote:ultimate777,

I am going to write to you a longer post. So, anticipate that. Today I have no time, I for now just fixed the quotes.
This thing will only handle so many quotes.

The only thing I am hiding from and afraid of is all the work needed to give the quotes etc. If this book were online I could do much better. If I thought there was a need to hide anything about this book I wouldn't even have given it enough creedence to start this.

I found this you might be interested in.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9650 ... y-of-doubt

There are more than 1000 reviews. You want me to read them all?

Posted: **Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:01 am**

Ultimate777, you neither provided your own views and opinions, nor you quoted from the book.
I am locking this thread.

And when I am back home from work I will delete author's name, book title and links, as we do not allow promoting non-Christian book here.

Evidence for God from Science

True believers

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Re: True believers

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