"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
It is offensive, because you are devaluing, what I value. Specifically: "It is a waste of conversation."Danieltwotwenty wrote:How may I ask is it offensive, you are angry, you are spewing hate and vitriol and it is a waste of conversation and this is the truth.
I think this is a fundamental difference between theists, and atheists. As an atheist, the offensiveness of the truth is not a valid reason for anything to change.Danieltwotwenty wrote:If you find the truth offensive, change your tact so we don't have to keep presenting it to you.
I will try to be more tactful, but I will not change my beliefs, or even completely stifle them, because they make people feel uncomfortable, or offended. That would be immoral of me.Danieltwotwenty wrote:I hope you do change tact, prove me wrong I dare you.
So you value calling people delusional etc.....?Lunalle wrote:It is offensive, because you are devaluing, what I value. Specifically: "It is a waste of conversation."Danieltwotwenty wrote:How may I ask is it offensive, you are angry, you are spewing hate and vitriol and it is a waste of conversation and this is the truth.
Indirectly, yes. If you believe (and you probably do), my actions are harmful, and based on a delusion, I think its important for you to say so, and for me to put a great deal of consideration in to your claim. I'd also respect you for doing so, because it shows how much you value not harming, and I regard that highly.Danieltwotwenty wrote:So you value calling people delusional etc.....?
I wonder how much of my position you actually understand, but your problem is with my presentation, so lets focus on that. I'm asking for your help here Dan. How would you, with the best intentions, present the position that religion is extremely harmful, to someone who is religious, without offending them? I'm claiming ignorance here. I don't know how to propose a belief is harmful to a person who holds that belief without offending them. Please, help me out.Danieltwotwenty wrote:I don't find your arguments or position offensive, I find the way you present them is offensive, it is condescending and plain rude.
I happen to think the opposite, I believe atheism is harmful and dangerous, I also believe that they are self deluded, but I doubt I would be received with kindness and love if I went to an atheist forum and spewed that at them. It is not conducive to healthy discourse, but hey if that's the way you want to continue then by all means proceed, but you will find pretty quickly that people are going to engage less and less.Lunalle wrote:Indirectly, yes. If you believe (and you probably do), my actions are harmful, and based on a delusion, I think its important for you to say so, and for me to put a great deal of consideration in to your claim. I'd also respect you for doing so, because it shows how much you value not harming, and I regard that highly.Danieltwotwenty wrote:So you value calling people delusional etc.....?
Sure, don't make it personal, don't tell people they are deluded etc.... I would say "In my opinion, I believe religion is harmful for the following reasons......................" and then wait for rebuttle.Lunalle wrote:I wonder how much of my position you actually understand, but your problem is with my presentation, so lets focus on that. I'm asking for your help here Dan. How would you, with the best intentions, present the position that religion is extremely harmful, to someone who is religious, without offending them? I'm claiming ignorance here. I don't know how to propose a belief is harmful to a person who holds that belief without offending them. Please, help me out.Danieltwotwenty wrote:I don't find your arguments or position offensive, I find the way you present them is offensive, it is condescending and plain rude.
Cheers!
