Evidence for God from Science

On top of that my personal view of the rapture is that it is anti-Semitic in that the Christians get beamed or raptured out of the world while the Jews are left back on earth to suffer another holocaust for their sins. This to me is absolutely preposterous.

Why would non-Christ-believing Jews get a free pass? Does God favor one race over another?

Gman wrote:
Christians need to understand that while their beliefs may "sound" good, they also bring baggage that they are not aware of.

Ikr! Christians actually believe people including Jews, have to trust Christ for salvation. Damn discriminatory Christians!!!!!
The intolerance of Christians has to stop! Christians are teh ebil!!!!!

Silvertusk wrote:

Silvertusk wrote:Ok - looked into this a little more and it is a little scary - although a few questions if anyone can answer:

1) There have been 7 Tetrads - only three of them have been associated with Israel - what about the other 4?

2) Another Tetrad will not happen for a 1000 years. Is this implying Christ Millenium reign after the rapture that may happen in the next two years (don't believe this one by the way)

3) If nothing happens over the next two years - what then? This is always why I find prophetic stuff dangerous and potentially damaging.

4) In all three instances - the Tetrad seems to have happened after the event - so how is this prophetic?

5) Isn't the fact that the Biblical calender is based on the Lunar cycle going to mean that a Tetrad will fall on the feasts anyway if it occurs?

6) Isn't this just a coincidence - didn't other major events happen around the world at the same time as Israels?

Just a few to throw out there?

Hi - anyone got any ideas about these questions? Genuinely seeking answers for these.

I posted that article earlier today before seeing this, but it does speak to your questions 1, 4, and 5.

3) If nothing happens over the next two years - what then? This is always why I find prophetic stuff dangerous and potentially damaging.

Concur 100%! In situations like this - e.g. the Millerites in the 1840s and Harold Camping (twice!) - many people who get into the speculation get heavily invested in it. people like that are not all going to shrug their shoulders and say, "Well, I guess I was wrong." Many will conclude that their interpretation was right, but the Scriptures were wrong. Date-setting and teaching that certain events must be fulfillments of specific end-times prophecies is hazardous to one's own and others' spiritual health. Speaking more broadly, trying to understand prophecy and to match up prophecies with certain events or processes can be very fascinating. Therein lies further potential for spiritual harm - imbalance. And I have seen some very bad fruit from this kind of imbalance, and some very hurt people. Let me be clear, I certainly believe Jesus will return; I believe that fact to be a fundamental teaching of the Christian faith. Realistically, the best preparation for the possibility of Jesus returning within our lifetimes is to be becoming and doing what we should be becoming and doing if Jesus doesn't return for another 2 centuries. So learning what we should be becoming and doing and becoming/doing that should be where we focus our energies.

And then there's non-believers who see this kind of foolishness ... it was probably very wrong of me, but I cannot say that I was saddened at hearing that Harold Camping had had a stroke, and was no longer able to speak. I hated feeling that way, but it was born of the realization and relief that Camping would no longer be able to bring shame and mockery to/on the name of Jesus and to/on believers, through his foolish speculations.

As Lewis once said, "I know of the two great commandments and I better get on with them".

On top of that my personal view of the rapture is that it is anti-Semitic in that the Christians get beamed or raptured out of the world while the Jews are left back on earth to suffer another holocaust for their sins. This to me is absolutely preposterous.

Whether one is Pre-Mil--Pre-Trib, Pre-Mil--Post-Trib, Post-Mil, A-Mil, or Pan-Mil (it all pans out in the end), any/all judgments of the time of the end fall on unbelievers generally, not just Jews who are not believers in Jesus. I'm aware that there are some among Jews who attack Evangelicals as being antisemitic over the Pre-Mil--Pre-Trib views of some/many, but this is simply a false accusation, for the reason that several of us have stated in various ways. Jewish non-believers in Jesus are not singled out for judgment, but are subject to judgments along with Gentile non-believers.

Gman, I realize, a little, the difficult position you are in of being a Jewish believer in Jesus who has ties to and reaches out to people in the Jewish community. Lending your voice to this false accusation won't lessen the difficulty and false accusations are clear and direct violations of one of the commandments.

neo-x wrote:As Lewis once said, "I know of the two great commandments and I better get on with them".

Indeed! The two greatest commandments which, as Jesus said, sum up the Law, plus Jesus's "new commandment" (John 13:34), are tough enough! And will bear greater fruit in the life of a believer (and the world) than reading a hundred Late Great ... books and/or attending a dozen prophecy conferences.

Pete wrote:
Gman, I realize, a little, the difficult position you are in of being a Jewish believer in Jesus who has ties to and reaches out to people in the Jewish community. Lending your voice to this false accusation won't lessen the difficulty and false accusations are clear and direct violations of one of the commandments.

Pete,

Gman is NOT Jewish. But I can see why you would think he is.

And the rapture being antisemitic? Puhleeese!

Gman,

I'm interested if you want to answer this question. Do Jews need to believe the gospel of Christ to be saved, or is there another way of salvation for them?

Gman is NOT Jewish. But I can see why you would think he is.

Thanks for the fill-in. I've been around for a year or so, but not around enough to have gotten to know everyone ... there's that clown character who I can only occasionally tell when he's serious or not ...

PeteSinCA wrote:

Gman is NOT Jewish. But I can see why you would think he is.

Thanks for the fill-in. I've been around for a year or so, but not around enough to have gotten to know everyone ... there's that clown character who I can only occasionally tell when he's serious or not ...

I know, the clown is a bit of a joker most of the time, though sometimes he makes serious responses. You can kinda tell the difference based on the number and type of emoticons used, but this isn't always the best way to tell. X3

Heheheh.

(Sorry for going a bit off-topic. >_<)

That clown guy is just too stupid to make any meaningful responses. He tries to hide his ignorance with jokes. It's pitiful, actually.

The thing about these eclipses that I question is that prophecy is so Israel-centered. And geographically as well. At least two of those eclipses will not even be seen in Israel. I'm not certain about the others.

Philip wrote:The thing about these eclipses that I question is that prophecy is so Israel-centered. And geographically as well. At least two of those eclipses will not even be seen in Israel. I'm not certain about the others.

Some interesting questions are suggested. Is, "the moon will be turned to blood," a local astronomical phenomenon - necessarily, as half the world is in sunlight at any given time? Is it some other phenomenon, lasting for days rather than an hour or two? Is it a metaphor, perhaps meaning that night times will become notorious for bloody violence?

Seraph wrote:

On top of that my personal view of the rapture is that it is anti-Semitic in that the Christians get beamed or raptured out of the world while the Jews are left back on earth to suffer another holocaust for their sins. This to me is absolutely preposterous.

Why would non-Christ-believing Jews get a free pass? Does God favor one race over another?

According to the Bible... G-d has not rejected the Jewish people.

Romans 11:1-2
“In that case, I say, isn’t it that God has repudiated his people?” Heaven forbid! For I myself am a son of Isra’el, from the seed of Avraham, of the tribe of Binyamin. 2 God has not repudiated his people, whom he chose in advance. Or don’t you know what the Tanakh says about Eliyahu? He pleads with God against Isra’el,

Romans 11:28-29
 With respect to the Good News they are hated for your sake. But with respect to being chosen they are loved for the Patriarchs’ sake, 29 for God’s free gifts and his calling are irrevocable.

Also according to Paul, he pleads to G-d that he would actually become cursed and cut off from Messiah for the Jewish people. If Paul was willing to do that for them, what do you propose we should do for the Jewish people?

Romans 9:3 that I could wish myself actually under God’s curse and separated from the Messiah, if it would help my brothers, my own flesh and blood, 4 the people of Isra’el! They were made God’s children, the Sh’khinah has been with them, the covenants are theirs, likewise the giving of the Torah, the Temple service and the promises; 5 the Patriarchs are theirs; and from them, as far as his physical descent is concerned, came the Messiah, who is over all. Praised be Adonai for ever! Amen

RickD wrote: Pete,

Gman is NOT Jewish. But I can see why you would think he is.

I don't meet the requirements for being Jewish according to the Rabbi's, so no I'm not technically Jewish.

RickD wrote:And the rapture being antisemitic? Puhleeese!

It is because the central message to the Jewish people is that Messiah will save the Christians while the Jewish people and Israel will suffer through the tribulation. Also if true, then who cares about Israel if you get beamed up out of trouble? That is the wrong message to send to His Jewish people.

RickD wrote:Gman,

I'm interested if you want to answer this question. Do Jews need to believe the gospel of Christ to be saved, or is there another way of salvation for them?

I don't believe in dual covenant theology, however I do believe that Christ will be fighting and defending the Jewish people and His Torah. Even though they don't accept Him as their messiah. When they see who He really is, a Tallit and Tefillin wearing Jew, many will flock to Him. So He will reveal Himself in a different way. In other words He won't be proselytizing to them, but by His actions they will finally accept Him and once that happens it's game over since they are the true guardians of the covenants according to Romans 9:4.

Though I find your opinion in serious error, gman... But Like you I also hope and wish that Israel be saved too, they need redemption, like all sinners do, like we did who have come to Christ.