Evidence for God from Science

One of the (sort of) arguments put forward by Cessationists is that speaking in tongues is the “least” of the Spiritual gifts. Kind of a sour-grapesy, “Speaking in tongues isn't important, so why worry about whether speaking in tongues is for today anyway?” The idea of calling any gift from God unimportant seems pretty arrogant and outrageous to me, and I think any of the Spiritual gifts is very important at the time that gift is needed. At any rate, Paul contradicted this argument in verse 5: ”Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues ...”. Even allowing for the statement that followed, (”... but even more that you would prophesy”), it's safe to conclude that Paul saw speaking in tongues, properly used in the right contexts, as important. Putting the two statements together, it was Paul's desire that every believer in the church at Corinth would both speak in tongues and prophesy. And lest anyone mistake his comment in verse 5 for hyperbole, Paul also said (verse 18), ”I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all.”

Another, “You shouldn't want to do this anyway,” argument used by some Cessationists is based on the first half of verse 4: “One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself”. How selfish! Right?! And Christians shouldn't be selfish, right? Well … Paul didn't say this was selfish, only that the benefit of speaking in tongues, of it self, is limited. Were Paul saying that speaking in tongues is selfish, why would he say in verse 5, ”Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues”, and in verse 18, ”I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all”? Cessationists advancing this argument also ignore the second part of verse 5, “greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.” Properly used in the church, a message in tongues is accompanied by its interpretation, and thereby the church is edified, negating the speaking-in-tongues-is-selfish argument. More fundamentally, this argument doesn't make sense. Consider, why would the Holy Spirit give a gift that was entirely selfish?! The problem isn't that speaking in tongues, properly used, is selfish, but in the, ”Throw any and every kind of mud at the wall and see if any of it sticks,” mindset of those Cessationists who assert this argument.

Another misconception I've heard concerning speaking in tongues is that it was a gift to enable missionaries to preach the Gospel to people whose language the missionary doesn't understand. While something sort of like that did occur in Acts 2, and I wouldn't presume to say that God couldn't do that, 1 Corinthians 14:6-19 demonstrates that this is not the principal purpose of speaking in tongues. In this passage many/most of those hearing the message in tongues are assumed to be believers, and these believers need the message interpreted, as they do not understand the language of the message.

Over all, 1 Corinthians 14 – along with Ephesians 5:18-19 and Colossians 3:16 – describes a “church service” very different from what is currently done every Sunday in most Christian churches. Whether a Catholic church celebrating mass with much the same liturgy as has been used for many centuries or a simpler Evangelical-Fundamentalist church service featuring several hymns, a sermon, plus announcements, all have some things in common: the leader(s) plan and implement what happens; the congregation is partly audience, partly participant, doing what the leader(s) have planned. Sometimes I wonder if the Holy Spirit would be unable to work in many/most modern churches, for lack of room! In the kind of “church service” Paul described, any and every believer might on any day be a “worship leader”, a teacher, prophesying, praying for some need, with the Holy Spirit leading and the leaders of the congregation overseeing to ensure things didn't get out of order and teachings didn't contradict Scripture. I wonder whether a believer raised with modern leader-audience “church services” would even recognize the leadership of the Holy Spirit, orderliness, and ministry happening in the believers' assemblies Paul knew.

1 Thessalonians 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit; 20 do not despise prophetic utterances. 21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment.

At times I think that the chapter-and-verse reference system – not part of the original texts – that aids in referring to and finding specific Scriptures – can be distracting or misleading. It is visually tempting to perceive each verse in 1 Thessalonians 5:16-22 as a separate and distinct statement. While Paul was winding up his letter, giving brief instructions, they are interconnected, forming a unified context. Thus, the instruction not to quench the Spirit is linked to the instructions not to despise prophecies and to think about such prophecies and retain what is good. Taking these verses from 1 Thessalonians 5 together, four things are worth pointing out. First, Paul would not forbid despising prophecy unless that were an actual problem in the church at Thessalonica. 1 Thessalonians being in part a corrective letter – addressing problems in a church – it's a reasonable to infer that these verses were intended to be corrective. I think that very correction is relevant and needed today! Second, despising prophecy would have the effect of quenching the work of the Holy Spirit. Besides discouraging prophecies, it would also tend to hinder the expression of other Spiritual gifts and the work of the Holy Spirit in the congregation, generally. Third, utterances purporting to be prophecies were to be considered carefully and judged. These are the two errant extremes: reflexive rejection; credulous acceptance. Persons “prophesying” could be mistaken (or worse, of course); what was done in such a case, beyond rejecting the message, is not mentioned (a prophet judged to have been mistaken or wrong would not, of course, have been killed, as in the Old Testament). My guess is that the character and severity of the mistake/error and the character of the person would have been key considerations in what would be done. Fourth, a prophecy judged to be true prophecy was to be treated as very important (though not as Scripture, as I pointed out above).

The big picture – in 1 Corinthians 14 and 1 Thessalonians 5 – is that prophecy (and all the other Spiritual gifts, for that matter) was/is not a toy or a tool for self-aggrandizement. Prophecy was given – as a gift and as messages – for the benefit of assembled believers. Paul communicated this clearly in these two letters, and likely taught this wherever he established a church.

1 Timothy 4:13 Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching. 14 Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery. 15 Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all.

2 Timothy 1:6 For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.

Hebrews 2:4 God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.

I suppose I could have grouped these passages with those from Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 14 and Ephesians 4. I think, though, it's a fitting conclusion to my survey of New Testament teaching about the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit, with particular focus on speaking in tongues and prophecy. Spiritual gifts are not toys, they aren't a personal power base, and they aren't badges of maturity. Spiritual gifts are given by God, the Holy Spirit, to strengthen believers – individuals and churches – and often does so by working through gifted believers (re-read Acts 13:2-3 in light of 1 Timothy 4:13 and 2 Timothy 1:6). Spiritual gifts can be neglected, ignored, despised, and abused. When that is done, harm is done, and God is hindered from working in believers as He might. When believers use their spiritual gifts – all believers, all the various gifts – the Body of Christ is built up.

Speaking more personally, the posts last weekend and this have a bit of been here before nostalgia and irony for me. Back in the early days of the charismatic movement (back when school cafeterias were serving the last of the dinoburgers) I read several testimony books. Besides telling of the authors' experiences, a de rigeur chapter covered NT passages concerning speaking in tongues, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit. I suppose every book did that because the authors had to assume that many/most Christians reading his/her book would be unfamiliar with the topics. But after a couple such books, I started skimming the chapters, looking for ideas I hadn't seen before, but otherwise moving on fairly quickly. And now I've written just such a survey! It's hard for me to say, at 4 decades' remove, how much of what I wrote above was informed by those books' gift/gifts chapters, and how much from personal Bible reading and study, but I can say that I drew from both. I won't say my posts above, taken together, are better written than all those books' gift/gifts chapters (I think at least a couple were written by Jamie Buckingham, who co-authored scores of books), but I do think I covered the ground - in number of passages considered - in greater completeness. I'm not boasting. Those books' purpose and scope imposed practical limits on their chapters about the gift/gifts. And I am very well aware that even a very plain-spoken, get-to-the-point pastor-teacher could spend months teaching from "just" Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12-14, and Ephesians 4. IOW, my posts may have scratched the surface of these topics. And as I posted to B. W., the gift/gifts are but one detail in a very large picture.

PeteSinCA wrote:

1 Timothy 4:13 Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching. 14 Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery. 15 Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all.

2 Timothy 1:6 For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.

Hebrews 2:4 God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.

I suppose I could have grouped these passages with those from Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 14 and Ephesians 4. I think, though, it's a fitting conclusion to my survey of New Testament teaching about the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit, with particular focus on speaking in tongues and prophecy. Spiritual gifts are not toys, they aren't a personal power base, and they aren't badges of maturity. Spiritual gifts are given by God, the Holy Spirit, to strengthen believers – individuals and churches – and often does so by working through gifted believers (re-read Acts 13:2-3 in light of 1 Timothy 4:13 and 2 Timothy 1:6). Spiritual gifts can be neglected, ignored, despised, and abused. When that is done, harm is done, and God is hindered from working in believers as He might. When believers use their spiritual gifts – all believers, all the various gifts – the Body of Christ is built up.

Again Pete, you posted one of the best post on this subject yet! and yes, it is just but one detail in a very large picture!
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PeteSinCA wrote:Speaking more personally, the posts last weekend and this have a bit of been here before nostalgia and irony for me. Back in the early days of the charismatic movement (back when school cafeterias were serving the last of the dinoburgers) I read several testimony books. Besides telling of the authors' experiences, a de rigeur chapter covered NT passages concerning speaking in tongues, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit. I suppose every book did that because the authors had to assume that many/most Christians reading his/her book would be unfamiliar with the topics. But after a couple such books, I started skimming the chapters, looking for ideas I hadn't seen before, but otherwise moving on fairly quickly. And now I've written just such a survey! It's hard for me to say, at 4 decades' remove, how much of what I wrote above was informed by those books' gift/gifts chapters, and how much from personal Bible reading and study, but I can say that I drew from both. I won't say my posts above, taken together, are better written than all those books' gift/gifts chapters (I think at least a couple were written by Jamie Buckingham, who co-authored scores of books), but I do think I covered the ground - in number of passages considered - in greater completeness. I'm not boasting. Those books' purpose and scope imposed practical limits on their chapters about the gift/gifts. And I am very well aware that even a very plain-spoken, get-to-the-point pastor-teacher could spend months teaching from "just" Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12-14, and Ephesians 4. IOW, my posts may have scratched the surface of these topics. And as I posted to B. W., the gift/gifts are but one detail in a very large picture.

one more thing to add is this:

When you read 1 Co 13:1 notice what is really being said: If I speak with the tongues of men ----- but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

Cessationist postulate that the unknown variety of tongues and all things mentioned in 1 Co 13:1-3 have ceased due to the fullness of the bible revelation being codified, or new level of adult maturity arrived at, or whatever.

Then think about it: should not have the tongues of men have ceased too?

As they say in the south: Why we all's still talking?
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P.S. There is a whole lot of people talking that is so much noise and so like clanging cymbals going on these days inside the church that no one takes the time to practice in God's symphony...

What follows is pretty much an addendum to this post. While reading in 1 Peter recently at the gym, I recognized that 1 Peter 4:10-11 probably refers to gifts of the Holy Spirit, generally and to a couple of gifts in particular:

1 Peter 4:10 As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; ...

I will not claim, with the same certainty as with 1 Corinthians 12, that these verses definitely speak of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but I will show reasons why I believe this to be the case. These 2 verses (actually, 1 1/2) are part of a larger context, verses 7-11, which are general instructions given to believers in light of the end of the world system being “near”.

The word in verse 10 translated "special gift" is the word karisma. While the literal meaning of this word is an unmerited favor or gift of grace, it is also the word Paul used throughout 1 Corinthians 12, 13 and 14 and in Romans 12:6 to denote the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

The word in verse 11 translated “speaks” is laleo. It is used in 1 Corinthians 12-14 in reference to speaking in tongues. The word is also, however, used to mean speaking, generally, including in those very same chapters of 1 Corinthians. I do not think, on the basis of this word alone, that it must refer to prophecy and/or speaking in tongues, but the word translated “utterances (of God)”, logion, does support that understanding. Logion means just as the NASB renders, an “utterance”; in the New Testament the word is specifically used to mean words spoken by God or an oracle of God (e.g. the Law given to Moses).

The word in verse 11 translated “serves” and “serving”, diakoneo, means an a servant or attendant who waits on some one's needs. It is used frequently in the New Testament to mean “serve” or “minister”, and is the Greek word from which we get the English word “Deacon”. It is also the verb form of the noun Paul used in the Romans 12 list of spiritual gifts for the gift of service. The clause, “as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies,” makes very clear that the serving to which Peter especially referred is more than just a natural ability, job or incidental action. Peter reminded his readers of the source of strength for their serving and urging them to make full use of their gift.

The brevity of these two verses and their context of a summary list of instructions, in my mind, preclude a definitive conclusion that these verse must specifically refer to gifts of the Holy Spirit. My opinion is that they do refer to the spiritual gift of service and to the gifts of prophecy, speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues, and I think the words of the text very strongly support this conclusion.

There is a significance to this passage beyond being yet another partial list of gifts of the Holy Spirit. It feels almost silly to point this out, but this is the one mention (that I've recognized, at least) of spiritual gifts that is not in a Pauline letter or in Acts (written by Luke, who ministered with Paul). Paul's writings are not, to me, any less authoritative as Scripture than, for example, the writings of Peter or John, but this demonstrates that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were not peculiarly manifested in/through Paul's ministry or some figment of his imagination. As brief as this mention is, I believe it shows Apostles' recognition of the importance of the gifts given by the Holy Spirit that are above and beyond believers' natural abilities. This makes sense, generally, as believers should be reliant and dependent on God for and in all the ministries of the church and believers.