Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:God decides who is saved and who is not, correct?
Then no one knows if they are saved unless God has spoken to them DIRECTLY and said as much.
All we can do is assume perhaps?
We assume/ believe we are saved because we put our faith in Christ and His act of love and sacrifice for Us.
That said, we are in a fallen state and giving ourselves to Christ does not negate that state, but gives us HOPE of salvation from this state.

Of course we can know. God has told us.

1John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

All we can do is assume?

I'm sorry paul, but this is another one of your posts.

Philip wrote:Rick makes an important point! A TRULY saved person can never lose their salvation - it's eternal and was both begun and completed by Christ - this despite how some unsaved or saved and misguided people misuse and misunderstand this doctrine.

God decides who is saved and who is not, correct?
Then no one knows if they are saved unless God has spoken to them DIRECTLY and said as much.

Of COURSE, one can know! IF they have truly done what Scripture teaches one MUST do to be saved, then they ARE saved. Period! And yes, God DID communicate to us through Scripture - it is living and active - so I'd also call that also speaking to us directly. IF one could not know whether or not they are saved, then we could have NO confidence of that, and we would be forced to live in fear and constantly at the mercy of our feelings of how our "supposed" salvation feels - or doesn't feel - at any given moment. Can we know for certain whether another is saved or not - I'd say no - because we can't see their hearts and minds. We can only look at their fruit and discern probabilities based upon that. But we could be wrong. But we know our OWN hearts and minds and the truth of whether we have truly believed and committed our lives into His hands, placed our trust in Him.

PaulS wrote:
How many people "KNEW" they were saved because, according to them, they were "devote Christians", BUT...they "fell away"?

RickD wrote:

PaulS wrote:
How many people "KNEW" they were saved because, according to them, they were "devote Christians", BUT...they "fell away"?

I'm not sure I see the issue with this. As long as being a devote Christian included trusting Christ for salvation, then they have everlasting life.

Fall away? You'd have to define "fell away". It's simple Paul. If one believes in/trusts Christ, one has everlasting life. It couldn't get any simpler.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:

PaulS wrote:
How many people "KNEW" they were saved because, according to them, they were "devote Christians", BUT...they "fell away"?

I'm not sure I see the issue with this. As long as being a devote Christian included trusting Christ for salvation, then they have everlasting life.

Fall away? You'd have to define "fell away". It's simple Paul. If one believes in/trusts Christ, one has everlasting life. It couldn't get any simpler.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

So what happens when we "lose" belief?

1over137 wrote:What about this?
Hebrews 6:1-6
1 Therefore leaving the [a]elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to [c]maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits. 4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [d]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:

PaulS wrote:
How many people "KNEW" they were saved because, according to them, they were "devote Christians", BUT...they "fell away"?

I'm not sure I see the issue with this. As long as being a devote Christian included trusting Christ for salvation, then they have everlasting life.

Fall away? You'd have to define "fell away". It's simple Paul. If one believes in/trusts Christ, one has everlasting life. It couldn't get any simpler.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

So what happens when we "lose" belief?

As far as salvation, nothing. God keeps a believer's salvation secure. Of course you're free to believe otherwise if you want. You don't have to believe in assurance of salvation, to have assurance of salvation.

Philip wrote: Of COURSE, one can know! IF they have truly done what Scripture teaches one MUST do to be saved, then they ARE saved. Period! And yes, God DID communicate to us through Scripture - it is living and active - so I'd also call that also speaking to us directly. IF one could not know whether or not they are saved, then we could have NO confidence of that, and we would be forced to live in fear and constantly at the mercy of our feelings of how our "supposed" salvation feels - or doesn't feel - at any given moment. Can we know for certain whether another is saved or not - I'd say no - because we can't see their hearts and minds. We can only look at their fruit and discern probabilities based upon that. But we could be wrong. But we know our OWN hearts and minds and the truth of whether we have truly believed and committed our lives into His hands, placed our trust in Him.

B. W. wrote:From a historical perspective of the condition of the German Church 1930's can you see why he taught a form of Jesus as one's Lord and Savior that just may cost one much to make a stand for Him?

You think I am trying to defend Lordship salvation? Give me a break...

1over137 wrote:What about this?
Hebrews 6:1-6
1 Therefore leaving the [a]elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to [c]maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits. 4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [d]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

PaulS wrote:
Oh I believe that God KNOWS who is saved, far more than we do, and that ONLY God knows for sure.
I myself have HOPE that I am saved my my belief in Christ and my giving of myself to Our Lord and Saviour.
Do I know for sure?
No, I don't.

Philip wrote:God decides who is saved and who is not, correct?
Then no one knows if they are saved unless God has spoken to them DIRECTLY and said as much.

Philip wrote: Of COURSE, one can know! IF they have truly done what Scripture teaches one MUST do to be saved, then they ARE saved. Period! And yes, God DID communicate to us through Scripture - it is living and active - so I'd also call that also speaking to us directly. IF one could not know whether or not they are saved, then we could have NO confidence of that, and we would be forced to live in fear and constantly at the mercy of our feelings of how our "supposed" salvation feels - or doesn't feel - at any given moment. Can we know for certain whether another is saved or not - I'd say no - because we can't see their hearts and minds. We can only look at their fruit and discern probabilities based upon that. But we could be wrong. But we know our OWN hearts and minds and the truth of whether we have truly believed and committed our lives into His hands, placed our trust in Him.

Paul Wrote: OH, so as long as we DO what we MUST to be saved, we ARE saved, eh?

Yes!

Romans 10:9 "because, IF you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

So, Scripture tells us if we "DO" the above, we will be saved. But one cannot truly DO the above unless he truly believes what this verse tells us we must - AND the verbal confession must match what is truly in the heart.

Similarly: "“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:31)

So, YES, what we DO is important to our salvation (as is the absence of doing so) - but this is not a "work" or in any way earning it. It is a mere acceptance of what has been provided, paid for, and offered us. And so Scripture teaches if we have sincerely confessed, BELIEVED and committed ourselves to Jesus, we ARE saved. Of course, as we could have done none of this without the Lord FIRST making it possible, so it is FIRST what the Lord did, but also we DO what He has said we must do to RECEIVE what HE has done.

Neo wrote:
This little bit is very nonsensical to me... If I start to hate god and lose my faith, am I still saved because honestly I did put my trust in Christ once? And I am still saved if I don't want to be with god? What if its me sincere wish that I be left alone, I don't want to be with god or in heaven. I truly have no interest, then am i still saved? Why can't god respect my fair wish even when it was he who gave me the capacity to wish.