Evidence for God from Science

I am aware of the unsettling effect of what I am posting, and also of the gigantic piles of similar sounding rubbish out there, often containing some truth to make it worse.

But you cannot get away from some basics, taught in the Bible, which are that God created matter, that matter is changeable and can be temporal, that matter is created by a Mystery called the Word of God, and that these things imply consistency in the way that matter exists and is maintained, due to the nature of God's personality and character.

Secondly, if the Bible is the authority on truth, then science must be measured by it and not the other way around.

If you are trying to comprehend nature only by your own experience and the collective knowledge of science, then you are walking on one leg.
If science disagrees with scripture, it must be wrong.

The next Q is whose interpretation of the Bible is correct?

You can only judge that by what you know it says and does not say, but I cannot assume I understand it, even though I accept it on face value.

If the Bible states that the ancients understood the invisible forces I accept it. It is not my opinion. And because I accept it, God rewards me with the evidence, that has caused me to have the same reaction as all of you guys over and over again.

Disbelief, shock, rejection, curiosity, nothing and "wow this can't be true," then also my hairs would stand on end when I found evidence, and then... I found I had no possible way of sharing it, and so kept it to myself.

Is there scientific evidence? yes, but not from scientists.

Now tell me something, have you ever seen or experienced a tornado? And have you heard the explanations for it? Tell me if you honestly believe what they propose or if you sense there is something else going on?

Or chose another topic of your interest? The principles of creation can be seen in all natural phenomenon.

Byblos wrote:StarHunter,

I honestly and sincerely don't know whether to be in awe of you or to dismiss you as sophist charlatan. Now I'm a fairly educated, well-read, semi-intelligent person but, again in all honesty, I have never heard of such, err ... I don't even know what to call them, 'theroies' I guess? (both italicized and in quotes).

You did manage to intrigue me, though. Do you have any links (they don't even have to be reputable ones at this stage) that would describe these 'theories' in greater detail?

From what I have searched on the net and in publications, nothing of the kind exits,

Try Google secret weapons WWII Germany, and you'll find interesting stuff among everything else.

Modern UFO tech began production here.

Starhunter wrote:I am aware of the unsettling effect of what I am posting, and also of the gigantic piles of similar sounding rubbish out there, often containing some truth to make it worse.

But you cannot get away from some basics, taught in the Bible, which are that God created matter, that matter is changeable and can be temporal, that matter is created by a Mystery called the Word of God, and that these things imply consistency in the way that matter exists and is maintained, due to the nature of God's personality and character.

Secondly, if the Bible is the authority on truth, then science must be measured by it and not the other way around.

If you are trying to comprehend nature only by your own experience and the collective knowledge of science, then you are walking on one leg.
If science disagrees with scripture, it must be wrong.

The next Q is whose interpretation of the Bible is correct?

You can only judge that by what you know it says and does not say, but I cannot assume I understand it, even though I accept it on face value.

If the Bible states that the ancients understood the invisible forces I accept it. It is not my opinion. And because I accept it, God rewards me with the evidence, that has caused me to have the same reaction as all of you guys over and over again.

Disbelief, shock, rejection, curiosity, nothing and "wow this can't be true," then also my hairs would stand on end when I found evidence, and then... I found I had no possible way of sharing it, and so kept it to myself.

Is there scientific evidence? yes, but not from scientists.

Now tell me something, have you ever seen or experienced a tornado? And have you heard the explanations for it? Tell me if you honestly believe what they propose or if you sense there is something else going on?

Or chose another topic of your interest? The principles of creation can be seen in all natural phenomenon.

There is nothing unsettling to me from anything you are posting. You make absolutley no sense. Where as I not only make sense to anyone that reads what I post, I can also back it up with science articles and research.

I request you make some sense or post some support that is more than your opinion and you resort back to senseless banter.

Mazzy wrote:

neo-x wrote:I am tired of BS, these conspiracy theories are all worthless junk. Not one of these statements has any spine. I appreciate the members but I don't appreciate what they are putting down. What's next, flat earth?

People go into depression reading this stuff which ia nonsense on the face of it. Angels, aliens, invasions, all stupid stuff which has no ground in the Bible, are of no theological importance except being sensational.

I have been with this crowd before, literally destroyed my faith.

Christ ain't coming soon fellas, better save your time to do something worthwhile. This comes as harsh but not ill intended. Please pull your head from which ever underground rock you have buried it beneath.

The thread topic is "How God Creates". I have already posted on matter being able to be created instantly. I have posted on current studies into teleportation. It is not a conspiracy theory to suggest physics is informing how a God could create instantly.

What would be really stupid stuff is suggesting the earth and mankind are not special, offering inconsistent guesswork as proven science and people that can't stick to the thread topic because they have some axe to grind.

My post was aimed at starhunter, not you.

neo-x wrote:

Mazzy wrote:

neo-x wrote:I am tired of BS, these conspiracy theories are all worthless junk. Not one of these statements has any spine. I appreciate the members but I don't appreciate what they are putting down. What's next, flat earth?

People go into depression reading this stuff which ia nonsense on the face of it. Angels, aliens, invasions, all stupid stuff which has no ground in the Bible, are of no theological importance except being sensational.

I have been with this crowd before, literally destroyed my faith.

Christ ain't coming soon fellas, better save your time to do something worthwhile. This comes as harsh but not ill intended. Please pull your head from which ever underground rock you have buried it beneath.

The thread topic is "How God Creates". I have already posted on matter being able to be created instantly. I have posted on current studies into teleportation. It is not a conspiracy theory to suggest physics is informing how a God could create instantly.

What would be really stupid stuff is suggesting the earth and mankind are not special, offering inconsistent guesswork as proven science and people that can't stick to the thread topic because they have some axe to grind.

My post was aimed at starhunter, not you.

My apologies. However, when you stated that angels were in with aliens and Jesus aint coming any time soon, I thought you were having a shot at all of us here. Some here would believe Jesus is to come again, although I really don't. If I have misinterpreted your words and you were only telling StarHunter to pull his head in, then I agree and apologize.

Starhunter wrote:If you are trying to comprehend nature only by your own experience and the collective knowledge of science, then you are walking on one leg.
If science disagrees with scripture, it must be wrong..

I have stated and offered links to suggest the bible does agree with scripture. God created the universe and life instantly by the use of physics that we are beginning to understand.

It appears that you are hobbling on one leg because you do not have any ability to speak to the topic and make sense. eg aliens and WW1.

Starhunter wrote:If people knew a little more about how God creates, they would have a different platform to stand on, rather than the broken ground of so called science. But because believers have tried to argue in a territory outside of faith, they have lost their ability to produce anything substantial to glorify God.
Many go along with the idea that it takes a lot of energy to make creation.
Which is true, but false, because God already possesses all power that is and could be, and more - as you know.
So for a creation to exist, it involves a sublimation or reduction, or a change in the status of power, rather than a build up, or explosion (for the Big Bangers).

Let's start again with the OP, Starhunter, because I really don't want to argue with you.

If people knew a little more about how God creates, they would have a different platform to stand on, rather than the broken ground of so called science. But because believers have tried to argue in a territory outside of faith, they have lost their ability to produce anything substantial to glorify God.

Here above Starhunter, you are assuming 'people' do not know as much about how God creates and apparently you know more. You call science a 'broken ground'. While it is true that much empirical evidence that is offered is flawed and challengeable, that does not mean that God does not use physical laws, regardless of mankind not understanding much of them. In fact we are starting to have some basic understanding of some of the physics God put in place, even if they need some tweaking to be 100% correct.

Suggesting God uses laws of physics does not take away from His glory.

Let's look at your next paragraph...

"Many go along with the idea that it takes a lot of energy to make creation.
Which is true, but false, because God already possesses all power that is and could be, and more - as you know.
So for a creation to exist, it involves a sublimation or reduction, or a change in the status of power, rather than a build up, or explosion (for the Big Bangers). "

At least part of the creation is made of matter. Big bang being right or some other method being right does not mean God did not use physics/laws to create. Many go along with the idea that a huge source of energy can make matter because it has been observed and done. Scientists can do this and they are not Gods. God made universal law and seeking to understand these laws is not taking glory away from God. Some of the creation is not corporeal eg Angels and we have no idea of the laws that govern such a creation.

neo-x wrote:I am tired of BS, these conspiracy theories are all worthless junk. Not one of these statements has any spine. I appreciate the members but I don't appreciate what they are putting down. What's next, flat earth?

People go into depression reading this stuff which ia nonsense on the face of it. Angels, aliens, invasions, all stupid stuff which has no ground in the Bible, are of no theological importance except being sensational.

I have been with this crowd before, literally destroyed my faith.

Christ ain't coming soon fellas, better save your time to do something worthwhile. This comes as harsh but not ill intended. Please pull your head from which ever underground rock you have buried it beneath.

I have not replied to any of your posts before, not because I am not interested, but because your statements stand on their own, they are clear and to the point, which is refreshing.

There is no conspiracy in what I have discovered in my research on the topic of creation.

In re to UFOs etc, a strong conspiracy is not needed to hide off beat science, because it is beyond common thinking.
What I am attempting to do is to introduce people to the concepts that were once known, as pertaining to everyday natural events, which they can observe and see whether it is so. And also help them to interpret strange reports of the paranormal, which sometimes involves secret science.

So far I am still trying to overcome the obstacles of unfamiliarity and suspicion.

I too loathe certain clubs and publications and have been disgusted with the time wasting theories and photos of mist and fog. And you are right about people who seek sensational material instead of facts.

Mazzy wrote:

Starhunter wrote:If people knew a little more about ...So for a creation to exist, it involves a sublimation or reduction, or a change in the status of power, rather than a build up, or explosion (for the Big Bangers).

Let's start again with the OP, Starhunter, because I really don't want to argue with you.

If people knew a little more about how God creates, they would have a different platform to stand on, rather than the broken ground of so called science. But because believers have tried to argue in a territory outside of faith, they have lost their ability to produce anything substantial to glorify God.

Here above Starhunter, you are assuming 'people' do not know as much about how God creates and apparently you know more. You call science a 'broken ground'. While it is true that much empirical evidence that is offered is flawed and challengeable, that does not mean that God does not use physical laws, regardless of mankind not understanding much of them. In fact we are starting to have some basic understanding of some of the physics God put in place, even if they need some tweaking to be 100% correct.

Suggesting God uses laws of physics does not take away from His glory.

Let's look at your next paragraph...

"Many go along with the idea that it takes a lot of energy to make creation.
Which is true, but false, because God already possesses all power that is and could be, and more - as you know.
So for a creation to exist, it involves a sublimation or reduction, or a change in the status of power, rather than a build up, or explosion (for the Big Bangers). "

At least part of the creation is made of matter. Big bang being right or some other method being right does not mean God did not use physics/laws to create. Many go along with the idea that a huge source of energy can make matter because it has been observed and done. Scientists can do this and they are not Gods. God made universal law and seeking to understand these laws is not taking glory away from God. Some of the creation is not corporeal eg Angels and we have no idea of the laws that govern such a creation.

The concept of power is about graduations, from eternal values in power, settled down to temporal values in power which describe our world, which we measure with our list of names for various values and functions called physical laws.
Although our physical laws are a reflection of the consistency in God's ruling, they do not and can never describe or define the laws which God has in place as a context and support for our known physical laws, let alone God Himself.

Natural law will never be able to account for the powers used in creation, because they are by products of other laws.

It is a graduation of powers, our physical laws are subject to the invisible powers, which are subject to principles of the Word, which is the source of the moral or spiritual law, which governs the manner in which creation exists.

This law of the Word describes the relation of creation with the Creator, and the relation of creation with creation.

It is a mirror of the moral law which defines, love for God and love for fellow creatures.

Therefore in God's eyes there is no difference in the reality and consequences of moral law and physical law.

Also it is a mistake to think that our physical world is independent of the power of the Word.

Don't take my comments personally, as I am just looking at it from one angle.

Starhunter wrote:

Mazzy wrote:

Starhunter wrote:If people knew a little more about ...So for a creation to exist, it involves a sublimation or reduction, or a change in the status of power, rather than a build up, or explosion (for the Big Bangers).

Let's start again with the OP, Starhunter, because I really don't want to argue with you.

If people knew a little more about how God creates, they would have a different platform to stand on, rather than the broken ground of so called science. But because believers have tried to argue in a territory outside of faith, they have lost their ability to produce anything substantial to glorify God.

Here above Starhunter, you are assuming 'people' do not know as much about how God creates and apparently you know more. You call science a 'broken ground'. While it is true that much empirical evidence that is offered is flawed and challengeable, that does not mean that God does not use physical laws, regardless of mankind not understanding much of them. In fact we are starting to have some basic understanding of some of the physics God put in place, even if they need some tweaking to be 100% correct.

Suggesting God uses laws of physics does not take away from His glory.

Let's look at your next paragraph...

"Many go along with the idea that it takes a lot of energy to make creation.
Which is true, but false, because God already possesses all power that is and could be, and more - as you know.
So for a creation to exist, it involves a sublimation or reduction, or a change in the status of power, rather than a build up, or explosion (for the Big Bangers). "

At least part of the creation is made of matter. Big bang being right or some other method being right does not mean God did not use physics/laws to create. Many go along with the idea that a huge source of energy can make matter because it has been observed and done. Scientists can do this and they are not Gods. God made universal law and seeking to understand these laws is not taking glory away from God. Some of the creation is not corporeal eg Angels and we have no idea of the laws that govern such a creation.

The concept of power is about graduations, from eternal values in power, settled down to temporal values in power which describe our world, which we measure with our list of names for various values and functions called physical laws.
Although our physical laws are a reflection of the consistency in God's ruling, they do not and can never describe or define the laws which God has in place as a context and support for our known physical laws, let alone God Himself.

Natural law will never be able to account for the powers used in creation, because they are by products of other laws.

It is a graduation of powers, our physical laws are subject to the invisible powers, which are subject to principles of the Word, which is the source of the moral or spiritual law, which governs the manner in which creation exists.

This law of the Word describes the relation of creation with the Creator, and the relation of creation with creation.

It is a mirror of the moral law which defines, love for God and love for fellow creatures.

Therefore in God's eyes there is no difference in the reality and consequences of moral law and physical law.

Also it is a mistake to think that our physical world is independent of the power of the Word.

Don't take my comments personally, as I am just looking at it from one angle.

Starhunter, do you really talk to people like this above. Am I the only one here that cannot understand anything you say? Suggesting physical laws are subject to invisible powers makes theists sound like nuts that believe in magic. A physical law does not need to evoke anything else, particularly magic, it is a 'law'.

There are actually laws of thermodynamics that could be evoked to support your case which sound much more coherent than what you are going on with. Although theories, they have been supported by observation. You can read this up on Wiki "Laws of Thermodynamics".

The law of conservation of energy. (Wiki)
This states that energy can be neither created nor destroyed. However, energy can change forms, and energy can flow from one place to another. The total energy of an isolated system does not change.

From the bible, "In the beginning GOD...." Genesis 1:1.

In other words this theory around thermodynamics, when taken to its limits, is likely correct and agrees with the bible. God was when nothing else was and existed as a huge energy source (physics) that had consciousness and personality (theism). By Him, by His power and energy, ALL things were made.

I have argued this case with physicists. If it is true that the energy in the universe cannot be destroyed, then ALL energy must return to the system somehow. If it didn't then the universe is finite and will one day fizzle out, it will not reduce to another singularity to explode into another universe, and this universe must be the first one, not the last of many.

Taking this law of thermodynamics even further, then the energy released when one dies, be it naturally by decay or cremation, which is mostly heat, must return to the universal system somehow. Even if eaten by other organisms eventually the energy released must return to the universal system some way yet to be determined.

To me this law of thermodynamics is the beginning of being able to support the concept of eternal life. God being the initial energy source for the created universe, is all His but changes for various uses. This is much like what you are arguing but using physics to base the argument on rather than incoherence.

Hence rather than arguing physical laws are subject to invisible powers making theism sound like magic, you would do much better evoking physics and basing your arguments in reality. eg A great source of energy can create matter instantly, in the beginning the first energy source was God etc.

Yes, it makes perfect sense what you are saying, about having enough known descriptions (of physical laws) to account for the behavior and existence of energy and matter etc, in nature/the universe, with out the need to have other seemingly impossible powers.

The physical laws of our universe are so wisely put together that creation seems to be perfectly independent, self governing and self sustained, a super economy in its own right. And yet it is dependent on other support systems.

Because spiritual and physical principles agree, this point illustrates that we are dependent on the Life and care of God even though we have been created as separate beings, with our own responsibilities and mind. Like a child is born of the parents, but the umbilical cord is cut.

God has made the universe on the values of freedom and independence.

This applies to the behavior of matter on any scale from sub atomic to galactic, and also to created life, and to human beings. The physical world has a wide spectrum of options in activity with boundaries we call physical laws, and the moral world, which humans share, has limitless options with boundaries called the law of God or ten commandments.

Say for example, the law that forbids stealing, allows you to be generous and creative to any extent but never to diminish the quality of life.

In regards to atoms, they have a wide range of behavioral options but with tendencies to follow the easiest path of operation, or the path of least resistance, and those tendencies we call physical laws such as thermodynamics.

Starhunter wrote:God has made the universe on the values of freedom and independence.

This applies to the behavior of matter on any scale from sub atomic to galactic, and also to created life, and to human beings. The physical world has a wide spectrum of options in activity with boundaries we call physical laws, and the moral world, which humans share, has limitless options with boundaries called the law of God or ten commandments.

Say for example, the law that forbids stealing, allows you to be generous and creative to any extent but never to diminish the quality of life.
.

I do not believe we are under law. The 10 commandments are reflections or shadown of the 2 greatest commandments. That is why one is not condemned if one murders to protect the innocent. If we were still under law, we could not kill for any reason, not even to save our family or to protect our nation. This is a matter of conscience, and hopefully a good and well trained conscience, unlike Islamic fanatics that do not reflect Islamic teaching much at all.

In relation to the thread topic, I believe instant creation is possible and that we now have the 'science' to take instant creation out of the realm of magic and into the realm of reality.

Well if God requested you to protect your family by killing the pedophile, which He would have expected of you in the wilderness without our civil authorities, then you must be subject to powers outside of your physical world?

Starhunter wrote:Well if God requested you to protect your family by killing the pedophile, which He would have expected of you in the wilderness without our civil authorities, then you must be subject to powers outside of your physical world?

Your comment is nonsensical. If you want to have a discussion with me please be sensible.

God said nothing about pedophiles in or out of the wilderness so then you must be subject to your own delusions.

Mazzy wrote:

Starhunter wrote:Well if God requested you to protect your family by killing the pedophile, which He would have expected of you in the wilderness without our civil authorities, then you must be subject to powers outside of your physical world?

Your comment is nonsensical. If you want to have a discussion with me please be sensible.

God said nothing about pedophiles in or out of the wilderness so then you must be subject to your own delusions.

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