What would have happened had Adam never sinned?

[Lonewolf]

BW,
Animals, fish, birds, and plants always died. Adam, and Eve never ate animals. True the sons of the angels who were giants did...they even ate humans, as per the scrolls of Enoch. God gave Noah all the animals to eat after the flood...there was no food left on earth. maybe that is why Noah got drunk.

Is the book of Enoch biblical?

And where not the Sons of God also considered -under some interpretation- to be the sons of Seth who still attempted to follow God's heart implanted laws, as opposed as to the sons of Cain who had deviated from the natural order of worshiping?

[Domenic]

BW,
Animals, fish, birds, and plants always died. Adam, and Eve never ate animals. True the sons of the angels who were giants did...they even ate humans, as per the scrolls of Enoch. God gave Noah all the animals to eat after the flood...there was no food left on earth. maybe that is why Noah got drunk.

Is the book of Enoch biblical?

And where not the Sons of God also considered -under some interpretation- to be the sons of Seth who still attempted to follow God's heart implanted laws, as opposed as to the sons of Cain who had deviated from the natural order of worshiping?

read genesis. you will see the angels came down and took the daughters of men, and had offspring's these were the mighty men of old. their children were oly half human. they were ciants. Enoch ins in the bible three times. Enoch was the great grand father of noah. In his scrolls he told of the flood that would come, and Noah would live. You can download the book o Enoch off the web.
The scrolls of Enoch was used by the Jews, and Christians of Jesus day. When they made the bible (book) they left that out...it is the history of the pre-flood world.

[Starhunter]

Don't Mormons have that same type of theology where one will become a sort of god, creator and maintainer of other planets?That may be so, ..."if" there wasn't an order to things.,
... our place in the order of things will dictate what our place in the cosmos will be.,
and that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll have the "controls" to anything!

If that is what Mormons teach, I'd have to agree, since all that are in Christ will be coheirs of all things with Him.

"Controlling" is an earthly manner, and not a heavenly one, so no one needs to force, manipulate or control anything.

However, to say that something perfect does not need maintenance, is a child's view and not a parental one.

Adam and Eve were to "replenish and subdue" the earth. Two types of activity done together; to enhance, to build up and nurture, and the other to distribute, channel, and divide. Giving and taking, promoting and subjecting.

To help them do this they would use as many natural elements as necessary, including animal life, plant life and the earth.

They were the gods of earth, made in God's "image," and in the "likeness" of God, in appearance, in responsibility and in character. Genesis 1:26-28.

[Domenic]

Don't Mormons have that same type of theology where one will become a sort of god, creator and maintainer of other planets?That may be so, ..."if" there wasn't an order to things.,
... our place in the order of things will dictate what our place in the cosmos will be.,
and that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll have the "controls" to anything!

If that is what Mormons teach, I'd have to agree, since all that are in Christ will be coheirs of all things with Him.

"Controlling" is an earthly manner, and not a heavenly one, so no one needs to force, manipulate or control anything.

However, to say that something perfect does not need maintenance, is a child's view and not a parental one.

Adam and Eve were to "replenish and subdue" the earth. Two types of activity done together; to enhance, to build up and nurture, and the other to distribute, channel, and divide. Giving and taking, promoting and subjecting.

To help them do this they would use as many natural elements as necessary, including animal life, plant life and the earth.

They were the gods of earth, made in God's "image," and in the "likeness" of God, in appearance, in responsibility and in character. Genesis 1:26-28.

You have a good understanding of why humans are the care takers. After Father created Adam, he told the angels to serve man. They rebelled, and refused. Father cast them down to earth in a form lower than man, but higher than the animals. They were almost human. Angels were told to serve man...that is a high position. This is when Satan came into the picture. He told one of these (as per the scrolls of Enoch) "The women thinks you are beautiful. let me use your body, and my words, and i will get them to disobey God, and you won't have to serve them any more." In Genesis is says Satan beguiled the women. That word beguiled means sexual intercourse. Read the book of Enoch. Satan made sure man left it out of the Bible. But it is still in the scrolls.

[Starhunter]

So if Adam had not sinned... none of it would have happened.

[Lonewolf]

You have a good understanding of why humans are the care takers. After Father created Adam, he told the angels to serve man. They rebelled, and refused. Father cast them down to earth in a form lower than man, but higher than the animals. They were almost human. Angels were told to serve man...that is a high position. This is when Satan came into the picture. He told one of these (as per the scrolls of Enoch) "The women thinks you are beautiful. let me use your body, and my words, and i will get them to disobey God, and you won't have to serve them any more." In Genesis is says Satan beguiled the women. That word beguiled means sexual intercourse. Read the book of Enoch. Satan made sure man left it out of the Bible. But it is still in the scrolls.

^ ^ you're basically saying that the fall of satan and his angels was on account of adam and eve, but i don't read that to be the case anywhere in the bible., in fact, i do believe that lucifer's fall was on account of something else., right?

[melanie]

You have a good understanding of why humans are the care takers. After Father created Adam, he told the angels to serve man. They rebelled, and refused. Father cast them down to earth in a form lower than man, but higher than the animals. They were almost human. Angels were told to serve man...that is a high position. This is when Satan came into the picture. He told one of these (as per the scrolls of Enoch) "The women thinks you are beautiful. let me use your body, and my words, and i will get them to disobey God, and you won't have to serve them any more." In Genesis is says Satan beguiled the women. That word beguiled means sexual intercourse. Read the book of Enoch. Satan made sure man left it out of the Bible. But it is still in the scrolls.

^ ^ you're basically saying that the fall of satan and his angels was on account of adam and eve, but i don't read that to be the case anywhere in the bible., in fact, i do believe that lucifer's fall was on account of something else., right?

I understand Lucifer's fall to be on the account of something else also.
He desired the worship that only God is worthy of, he loved himself more than he loved God and as a result of his pride rebelled.
I'm interested if other's believe this also?

[Domenic]

You have a good understanding of why humans are the care takers. After Father created Adam, he told the angels to serve man. They rebelled, and refused. Father cast them down to earth in a form lower than man, but higher than the animals. They were almost human. Angels were told to serve man...that is a high position. This is when Satan came into the picture. He told one of these (as per the scrolls of Enoch) "The women thinks you are beautiful. let me use your body, and my words, and i will get them to disobey God, and you won't have to serve them any more." In Genesis is says Satan beguiled the women. That word beguiled means sexual intercourse. Read the book of Enoch. Satan made sure man left it out of the Bible. But it is still in the scrolls.

^ ^ you're basically saying that the fall of satan and his angels was on account of adam and eve, but i don't read that to be the case anywhere in the bible., in fact, i do believe that lucifer's fall was on account of something else., right?

I understand Lucifer's fall to be on the account of something else also.
He desired the worship that only God is worthy of, he loved himself more than he loved God and as a result of his pride rebelled.
I'm interested if other's believe this also?

Satan wanted to be like God, but e could not create. What he could do, and did, was take what God had created, and made something different...half human, half angel. These are his followers. These are the tares.

[Philip]

Here's the question: COULD Adam and Eve, given the choices they had and free will they were given, have REMAINED sinless? I say NO! Unless God had created them INCAPABLE of sinning, as basically robots programmed to never do - or be ABLE to do - anything more than He programmed them for. Because unless transformed by God, I would think all created beings would eventually sin, that only God has always remained sinless.

And here's a few questions concerning the angels that were NOT part of the rebellion led by Lucifer: Do the angels currently with the Lord in Heaven EVER sin? And even though it's Heaven, we know, due to the Luciferian Rebellion, that there WAS once sin there. And so, how can ANY of Heaven's present Angels - whom apparently have free will - in their own power, NEVER sin?

Thoughts?

[Domenic]

Here's the question: COULD Adam and Eve, given the choices they had and free will they were given, have REMAINED sinless? I say NO! Unless God had created them INCAPABLE of sinning, as basically robots programmed to never do - or be ABLE to do - anything more than He programmed them for. Because unless transformed by God, I would think all created beings would eventually sin, that only God has always remained sinless.

And here's a few questions concerning the angels that were NOT part of the rebellion led by Lucifer: Do the angels currently with the Lord in Heaven EVER sin? And even though it's Heaven, we know, due to the Luciferian Rebellion, that there WAS once sin there. And so, how can ANY of Heaven's present Angels - whom apparently have free will - in their own power, NEVER sin?

Thoughts?

God did not want Adam to sin, he even warned him against it...telling him he would die. It was Adam who told Eve. I'm sure she did not like the fact that everything had to go through Adam. You, and me are warned not to sin...so are the angels.
Note: Adam, and Eve did not die from what they did, they died from a judgment from god.
Adam shared his wife with Satan...a three some. This was an act of adultery on the part of all three of them. The reason God called Satan a murderer, is the results of that act caused the whole unborn human race to die. God give all his creatures free will. 1/3rd the angels joined Satan in his rebellion. The rest did not. Those who did wanted to live like man, and not serve man.

[melanie]

Here's the question: COULD Adam and Eve, given the choices they had and free will they were given, have REMAINED sinless? I say NO! Unless God had created them INCAPABLE of sinning, as basically robots programmed to never do - or be ABLE to do - anything more than He programmed them for. Because unless transformed by God, I would think all created beings would eventually sin, that only God has always remained sinless.

And here's a few questions concerning the angels that were NOT part of the rebellion led by Lucifer: Do the angels currently with the Lord in Heaven EVER sin? And even though it's Heaven, we know, due to the Luciferian Rebellion, that there WAS once sin there. And so, how can ANY of Heaven's present Angels - whom apparently have free will - in their own power, NEVER sin?

Thoughts?

Good question Phillip, I was just thinking about that the other day. I'm not sure if Angels in Heaven sin but clearly they are capable of it. Was Lucifer the one off, I think yes.
A question I have is I believe God knows the future, this is shown through His prophets. He created the universe and time, so he can see into the future, past and present. Is it different in the heavenly, spiritual realm? Was God taken off guard with Lucifer's rebellion, did he have any idea that that was going to take place?

If Adam and Eve were never tempted by Satan would they have sinned anyway, probably. With free will seems almost impossible that they wouldn't have.

Edit
The rebellion Lucifer orchestrated, he wasn't the only one, he dragged a third of the angels with him.

[Domenic]

Here's the question: COULD Adam and Eve, given the choices they had and free will they were given, have REMAINED sinless? I say NO! Unless God had created them INCAPABLE of sinning, as basically robots programmed to never do - or be ABLE to do - anything more than He programmed them for. Because unless transformed by God, I would think all created beings would eventually sin, that only God has always remained sinless.

And here's a few questions concerning the angels that were NOT part of the rebellion led by Lucifer: Do the angels currently with the Lord in Heaven EVER sin? And even though it's Heaven, we know, due to the Luciferian Rebellion, that there WAS once sin there. And so, how can ANY of Heaven's present Angels - whom apparently have free will - in their own power, NEVER sin?

Thoughts?

Good question Phillip, I was just thinking about that the other day. I'm not sure if Angels in Heaven sin but clearly they are capable of it. Was Lucifer the one off, I think yes.
A question I have is I believe God knows the future, this is shown through His prophets. He created the universe and time, so he can see into the future, past and present. Is it different in the heavenly, spiritual realm? Was God taken off guard with Lucifer's rebellion, did he have any idea that that was going to take place?

If Adam and Eve were never tempted by Satan would they have sinned anyway, probably. With free will seems almost impossible that they wouldn't have.

Melanie...I'm glade you said that. many have told me we are saved. I have always replied, "I won't be saved until I pass the final test at the end of the 1,000 year rule of Jesus. I will be perfect, but yes, a perfect person can sin...thus I won't be saved until I pass that final test...which means, none of us are yet saved. Thank you darling.

[Philip]

Melanie: Was God taken off guard with Lucifer's rebellion, did he have any idea that that was going to take place?

Impossible! God is ALL-knowing of the past, present and future. There is NOTHING that He doesn't know about. Future events are like yesterday to Him. There is also no future action or response of God that He doesn't know about. He cannot be surprised. And because God knows of all future things, there is no future action that He will take that He doesn't already intimately know about.

Interesting thing about the Satanic rebellion in Heaven: Although we don't really know how long the rebels had existed prior to the rebellion, it would seem that they had spent enough time around God to know that He is all-powerful and that NO mere created being could ever defeat Him. But, aparently, in their sin and lust to rule in God's place, they were blinded to the impossibility of their rebellion ever being sucessful. And their rebellion is the ultimate indication that one can have great familiarity with God and all of His wonderous, miraculous powers and great love, and yet some will still reject, resist and rebel against Him, amidst their own grand delusions of self importance and ability.

[Philip]

"I won't be saved until I pass the final test at the end of the 1,000 year rule of Jesus. I will be perfect, but yes, a perfect person can sin...thus I won't be saved until I pass that final test...which means, none of us are yet saved.

This is unScriptural!

[Domenic]

"I won't be saved until I pass the final test at the end of the 1,000 year rule of Jesus. I will be perfect, but yes, a perfect person can sin...thus I won't be saved until I pass that final test...which means, none of us are yet saved.

This is unScriptural!

How do you find this Unscriptual? We will have a final test on a perfect earth, in a perfect body...Satan will be let lose for a short time. What do you think will happen if we fail that test?.