Stardust wrote:So god says were not worthy of salvation but sends Jesus to save humans that god deemed unworthy of. huh?
Yes, God sent Jesus to save people unworthy of salvation. There's nothing terribly difficult about the concept. There are plenty of human relationships in which one will grant someone a grace for which they are unworthy. For that matter, how many lovers have said to one another, "I am unworthy of your love"? How many people have been granted pardons for which they were not worthy? Indeed, pardons, by their nature, must be given to the unworthy, or else they are not pardons after all!
So god sacrifices his flesh self to his spirit self
God does not have two selves, at least, not two selves distinguished by flesh and spirit. If you want to appeal to the Trinity, then you can say (without the mockery) that the Son sacrificed Himself to the Father. But to try to make this about the flesh v. the spirit is to misunderstand the matter. In fact, you are dangerously close to an old heresy called Nestorianism, which was condemned by the church as far back as the fifth century AD.
so the unworthy humans could be saved from the wrath god was planning to unleash on them, makes perfect sense
Yes, it's not terribly hard to follow. God pardoned unworthy sinners. Perhaps you have a problem with the notion of grace, which, by definition, is unmerited favor. Perhaps you are only willing to accept a "Christianity" that teaches that we earn, and therefore deserve and are thus worthy of, our salvation. But in that case, you've just rejected the central tenant of our faith. Human beings are unworthy of salvation. They receive it freely, as a pardon from God, absolutely by His grace and nothing more. The moment you try to make yourself somehow worthy of it, you are no longer Christian. You are, rather, promoting a works-based gospel, which is, as Paul would put it, no gospel at all.
But god and Jesus are the same thing stardust.
Yes, Son and the Father are of the same substance.
I get it now, god is schizophrenic.
It seems that you are using "schozophrenia" in the commonly mistaken way as equating it with multiple personality disorder. But there, you are still mistaken, for MPD (or what is today known as dissociative identity disorder) occurs when one person has multiple personalities (or, again, in modern parlance, multiple enduring identities). That does not correctly describe the Trinity, however, which has three Persons in one Being. And, again, if you want to accuse Christ of schizophrenia/MPD/DID, you are just back to the nestorian heresy mentioned above.
As a point of fact, God is very rational here. He has chosen to pardon people of their sin. Since it is a pardon, it is by nature and by necessity unmerrited, and therefore by grace, and therefore we must conclude that the pardoned parties (us) are unworthy of said pardon. Refusing to acknowledge the relative simplicity of the logic would either show a defect in your intellect or a dishonesty in yourself. I'll let you do a little self-reflection and decide which that might be.
It makes total sense if you just realise god has split personality disorder, or the humans that created the myth didn't properly think it through.
Hey, look, I was right. You
were misusing "schizophrenia"!
Now, since you have demonstrated that you don't know what schizophrenia is, you don't know what the Trinity is, you don't know what the hypostatic union is, you don't understand the basic nature of a pardon, and you don't understand the distinction between worth and worthiness, why, pray tell, should I pay any attention to your claim that we haven't properly thought our faith through? Do you really believe that YOU, in all your intellect and in all your glory, have, in so few words, brought to light so clearly such an obvious fault that some of the greatest minds in human history have completely missed?
The arrogance on your part is rather astounding . . . or it would be, if I hadn't seen it before. Actually, it's rather boring. But, the good news is, it's helpful for those who
are of some real intelligence, for your silly, ignorant, uneducated, and laughable little rants allow us to see just how rational the gospel actually is from yet another perspective.
Seriously stop trying to attempt to make any sense of this and just admit it doesn't, it never has and never will make sense.
It's so funny to read the lengths you are going to in order to not admit it doesn't make sense, no one can even agree on anything. Yes we are worthy, no we are not, god says we aren't, Jesus must think we are. But god thinks were valuable, but Jesus is god, Let's change it to metaphorical see if that works, let's say were getting meanings of words confused.
So after reading all that the question still remains. I read a whole lot of gibberish psychobabble that answered squat.
That you can't make sense of something so very obvious says far more about you than us, my friend. You don't realize that you are just telling on yourself. You remind me of a patient I saw some time ago in my work in a local hospital. The physicans became aware of the fact that this person had a narcotic addiction about which they were in denial. In discussing the matter, the person said, very emphatically, "I am not a drug addict! You just have to understand that I am accustomed to Xmg of [drug]." At that statement, the physician, case manager, and I all simply exchanged a knowing glance. The patient had no idea what they had just admitted to. Those of us who had received the proper training, however, did, and that informed our plan of care going forward.
And so it is with you. Your rants say far more about yourself than you realize, and that you don't realize it contributes to the picture. You think you are saying something interesting or meaningful. And in a sense, you are. But it is only interesting and meaningful about your own defective understanding about the thing you are critiquing, and that, in turn says a great deal that is interesting and meaningful about your motives; the emotional reactivity your conversation necessarily assumes says a great deal about the messages you carry inside you, most likely unconsciously (as the JoHari Window would put it, those things that you are blind to that others can see). And that, in turn, says a great deal of interest about the origin of those messages. But all of that is really about you. It's hardly about our faith. Your comments about our faith, with respect to our faith, are about as meaningful as a third graders objections to the mathematics underlying quantum mechanics. Your comments about our faith, with respect to yourself, however, are rather revealing.
I don't take it you'll be around too terribly wrong, so I'll just say now with what little time I think I'll have: God bless you! May you become more curious, less arrogant, more open, less dogmatic, more willing to learn, and less presumptuous to teach.
