Evidence for God from Science

Evolution is a lie from Satan to cover up the truth of the Gap theory...

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I did not say that the 2nd law prevents evolution but that there is no evidence in science that demonstrates life evolves

I am not sure exactly what you mean by "demonstrates' but the world scientific community is satisfied that the theory of evolution is very well evidenced.

and my point was there is evidence all around us for the 2nd law which is proven science

Ok, now is where the word "demonstrated' comes in. We can demonstrate the accuracy of any of our scientific laws, but they cannot ever be proven There is no such thing as "proven science". You can take my word for that, or look it up.

unlike evolution,so this idea that science is full of theories for the sake of evolution is not true

Sorry, I dont know what you mean by that.

.

My point is evolution is believed by faith as much as the bible is believed by faith yet evolution is propped up and taught as scientific truth.

I have heard this statement about "evolution believed by faith" many times. I wonder if you are repeating what you have heard, or if you have done in depth study on the science and come to that conclusion independently? There appears to me to be an enormous body of evidence, and no contrary evidence, so for me at least, there is no "faith" involved.

If ANYONE teaches ANYTHING about science as "scientific truth' they should be fired.

This is why the Gap theory still beats evolution after 150 years of evolution because at the end of the day you can tell us all you want to that life evolves but you cannot demonstrate it does

Oh?

You can only preach "macro-evolution" like a preacher preaching about Jesus and both require faith to believe and so God and his word wins based on this because there is no reason to have two faiths especially if you are a Christian who accepts evolution

Science is not religion, it is not preached. The theory of evolution is not different from other theories in science, it is evidence based, and like all theories, cannot be proved, but is open to disproof. If it is not correct, that has yet to be shown, as no contrary evidence exists.

Evolution is a lie from Satan to cover up the truth of the Gap theory because evolution uses the evidence that proves the Gap theory true

Now now, you have exactly zero evidence that its a lie from Satan. And no theory, gap or otherwise, can ever be proved true.

for much its evidence,this is no different than how Satan has covered up the truth of the 12 constellations that reveal the gospel in the heavens with astrology.Satan is a liar and a deceiver and covers up the truth.

One should keep in mind, if he is that good, that there is nobody safe from being fooled.

abelcainsbrother wrote:The Gap theory tells us there was a former world on this earth full of life but it perished in a flood(not Noah's flood)Genesis 1:2 and all life that existed in it perished until God created this world and everything after Genesis 1:3 was God creating this world about 6-10,000 years ago. The geological evidence of an old earth with the fossils,coal and oil testify to a former world that existed but evolutionists hijacked this evidence away from the church after evolution became so popular and the Gap theory was forgot about by the church.

I agree that the Gap theory is closer to the Bible than other Old Earth theories and I used to believe it but I have discovered on problem with it. If the fossils are left over from a destruction that took place before Genesis 1:3 what evidence is there for the flood in Noah's time? If the theory is right there should be two separate groups of fossils, those left by Noah's flood and a layer of fossils below them that were part of the original earth.

There is one thing that puzzles me. You are advocating the Gap theory but I checked your profile and you said there that you believe in Day-Age/Progressive creation.

Thing is, the fossil record clearly shows many "former worlds".
An assemblage of marine life from say the Devonian is very different from that of the Cambrian; the Permian ended with most species going extinct and the assemblage from the Triassic is again, very different. And so on.

A few "kinds" persist thro the ages. Oysters have hung on for a long time now, fortunately!

Its not correct to think of just one 'former world", at least, not by any geological data.

Audie wrote:Thing is, the fossil record clearly shows many "former worlds".
An assemblage of marine life from say the Devonian is very different from that of the Cambrian; the Permian ended with most species going extinct and the assemblage from the Triassic is again, very different. And so on.

A few "kinds" persist thro the ages. Oysters have hung on for a long time now, fortunately!

Its not correct to think of just one 'former world", at least, not by any geological data.

Most fossil research has been done by people who don't believe in a worldwide flood and assume that the fossils were formed over a long period of time. Their preconceived ideas make them overlook or explain away evidence that contradicts what they already believe. Here is a site where the geological evidence is examined from a Biblical point of view:

http://biblicalgeology.net/

theophilus wrote:

Audie wrote:Thing is, the fossil record clearly shows many "former worlds".
An assemblage of marine life from say the Devonian is very different from that of the Cambrian; the Permian ended with most species going extinct and the assemblage from the Triassic is again, very different. And so on.

A few "kinds" persist thro the ages. Oysters have hung on for a long time now, fortunately!

Its not correct to think of just one 'former world", at least, not by any geological data.

Most fossil research has been done by people who don't believe in a worldwide flood and assume that the fossils were formed over a long period of time. Their preconceived ideas make them overlook or explain away evidence that contradicts what they already believe. Here is a site where the geological evidence is examined from a Biblical point of view:

http://biblicalgeology.net/

The reason they dont "believe in" a world wide flood is simple; there is,
a) no evidence that it occurred
b) as with any hypothesis, it is subject to being disproved. There are many ways that the flood hypothesis is disproved.

it is not correct to say that it is "assumed" that the fossils are the product of a long time period. "Assume" is what one does when there is no information to go on.

"Explain away" is what one does when they have chosen to deceive themselves or others. Please show evidence that this is being done.

Often enough it happens that some new evidence comes to light that amends what was preciously thought, or shows some idea was wrong.

An analogy might be the mystery of a sunken Uboat. At first, it might be thought to be that it was sunk by a mine, and that it was the Uxx. Later, documents show that it was the Uyyy, hit by a torpedo. None of that brings into question whether the boat was sunk or if WW2 is a hoax.

What belief do you speak of, and what evidence contradicts it?

A 'biblical point of view" is btw, taking the conclusion before the data, not good practice. The thing to do is go where the evidence leads, without assumptions or preconceived ideas, dont you think so?

Audie wrote:
A 'biblical point of view" is btw, taking the conclusion before the data, not good practice. The thing to do is go where the evidence leads, without assumptions or preconceived ideas, dont you think so?

Audie,

It's common practice for theophilus to equate "YEC" and "biblical". The young earth interpretation is one of many creation interpretations.

Of course those of us who are intellectually honest in our discussions, realize our interpretation is just an interpretation. Our interpretations are not equal to scripture itself. But occasionally here, you'll find someone who is so dogmatic about a doctrine that he will push that doctrine every chance he gets. And those people usually don't listen to any argument against their position, no matter how rational the argument is.

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:
A 'biblical point of view" is btw, taking the conclusion before the data, not good practice. The thing to do is go where the evidence leads, without assumptions or preconceived ideas, dont you think so?

Audie,

It's common practice for theophilus to equate "YEC" and "biblical". The young earth interpretation is one of many creation interpretations.

Of course those of us who are intellectually honest in our discussions, realize our interpretation is just an interpretation. Our interpretations are not equal to scripture itself. But occasionally here, you'll find someone who is so dogmatic about a doctrine that he will push that doctrine every chance he gets. And those people usually don't listen to any argument against their position, no matter how rational the argument is.

Been there, seen that.

The way my father in law put it, as a Christian, is that some people have the unfortunate belief in their own infallibility at Bible reading such that they believe their own interpretation over the works of the God they say they believe in.

or words to that effect.

I know few of us listen well, but i go with the chance that as a twig is bent...
maybe if a person realizes even one small part of their picture is not right, they will be open to the idea that there may be more of it that needs work.

theophilus wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:The Gap theory tells us there was a former world on this earth full of life but it perished in a flood(not Noah's flood)Genesis 1:2 and all life that existed in it perished until God created this world and everything after Genesis 1:3 was God creating this world about 6-10,000 years ago. The geological evidence of an old earth with the fossils,coal and oil testify to a former world that existed but evolutionists hijacked this evidence away from the church after evolution became so popular and the Gap theory was forgot about by the church.

I agree that the Gap theory is closer to the Bible than other Old Earth theories and I used to believe it but I have discovered on problem with it. If the fossils are left over from a destruction that took place before Genesis 1:3 what evidence is there for the flood in Noah's time? If the theory is right there should be two separate groups of fossils, those left by Noah's flood and a layer of fossils below them that were part of the original earth.

There is one thing that puzzles me. You are advocating the Gap theory but I checked your profile and you said there that you believe in Day-Age/Progressive creation.

It is not a problem for the Gap theory about Noah's flood as Gap theorists do not deny Noah's flood and I believe there is evidence for Noah's flood even if science overlooks it.However the sun was shining during Noah's flood and so a lot of life that died in it would've decayed away however I think Neanderthals can be said to be the descendants of Cain and they died in Noah's flood because it baffled secular scientists why Neanderthals died out and yet man lived but they fail to thank Noah and his family for building the ark.But when the former world perished God turned the stars off and this would flood the heavens with water and we have an ice age to work with scientifically.

It is weird because I have found much evidence right here on this web-sight that can be added to the Gap theory.Rich Deem is smart scientifically and if you dig in here you can find a lot of scientific biblical reasons to know and believe the heavens and earth are old,understand the fossils,primates,etc and kinda be both biblically and scientifically smart,this is why I like to look in all areas and try to pick out the good info and shun the bad stuff.I actually think we all have evidence and truth that each creation theory needs as young earth creationists have some truth,Gap theorists,old earthers and ID ers,etc.I don't think one side has all of the truth and if we could find a way to work together evolution which has caused a lot of good people to doubt God's word would have much more stiff competition.

When you make your profile they don't give the Gap theory option to click on and so I chose day/age/progressive creation because it is old earth creationism.

Audie wrote: it is not correct to say that it is "assumed" that the fossils are the product of a long time period. "Assume" is what one does when there is no information to go on.

Exactly. And those who don't believe in the historical accuracy of the Bible don't have any information when they start their research. They don't believe God has intervened in natural events so they interpret the evidence in accordance with their beliefs.

abelcainsbrother wrote:It is not a problem for the Gap theory about Noah's flood as Gap theorists do not deny Noah's flood and I believe there is evidence for Noah's flood even if science overlooks it.However the sun was shining during Noah's flood and so a lot of life that died in it would've decayed away

The life would have been buried quickly with any chance to decay. That is the conditions required to produce fossils.

however I think Neanderthals can be said to be the descendants of Cain and they died in Noah's flood because it baffled secular scientists why Neanderthals died out

Neanderthals didn't die out; they interbred with other humans and many of us are descended from them.

WASHINGTON – Next time you call someone a Neanderthal, better look in a mirror.

Many of the genes that help determine most people's skin and hair are more Neanderthal than not, according to two new studies that look at the DNA fossils hidden in the modern human genome.

About 50,000 years ago, modern day humans migrated out of Africa north to Europe and East Asia and met up with furrow-browed Neanderthals that had been in the colder climates for more than 100,000 years. Some of the two species mated. And then the Neanderthals died off as a species — except for what's left inside of us.

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/01/ ... rthal-dna/

abelcainsbrother wrote:

theophilus wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:The Gap theory tells us there was a former world on this earth full of life but it perished in a flood(not Noah's flood)Genesis 1:2 and all life that existed in it perished until God created this world and everything after Genesis 1:3 was God creating this world about 6-10,000 years ago. The geological evidence of an old earth with the fossils,coal and oil testify to a former world that existed but evolutionists hijacked this evidence away from the church after evolution became so popular and the Gap theory was forgot about by the church.

I agree that the Gap theory is closer to the Bible than other Old Earth theories and I used to believe it but I have discovered on problem with it. If the fossils are left over from a destruction that took place before Genesis 1:3 what evidence is there for the flood in Noah's time? If the theory is right there should be two separate groups of fossils, those left by Noah's flood and a layer of fossils below them that were part of the original earth.

There is one thing that puzzles me. You are advocating the Gap theory but I checked your profile and you said there that you believe in Day-Age/Progressive creation.

It is not a problem for the Gap theory about Noah's flood as Gap theorists do not deny Noah's flood and I believe there is evidence for Noah's flood even if science overlooks it.However the sun was shining during Noah's flood and so a lot of life that died in it would've decayed away however I think Neanderthals can be said to be the descendants of Cain and they died in Noah's flood because it baffled secular scientists why Neanderthals died out and yet man lived but they fail to thank Noah and his family for building the ark.But when the former world perished God turned the stars off and this would flood the heavens with water and we have an ice age to work with scientifically.

It is weird because I have found much evidence right here on this web-sight that can be added to the Gap theory.Rich Deem is smart scientifically and if you dig in here you can find a lot of scientific biblical reasons to know and believe the heavens and earth are old,understand the fossils,primates,etc and kinda be both biblically and scientifically smart,this is why I like to look in all areas and try to pick out the good info and shun the bad stuff.I actually think we all have evidence and truth that each creation theory needs as young earth creationists have some truth,Gap theorists,old earthers and ID ers,etc.I don't think one side has all of the truth and if we could find a way to work together evolution which has caused a lot of good people to doubt God's word would have much more stiff competition.

When you make your profile they don't give the Gap theory option to click on and so I chose day/age/progressive creation because it is old earth creationism.

There are some that say the Gap theory is discredited, others not, others say YEC, and others OEC, Does it really matter?

Listen again to the principle mentioned in: 1 Co 3:3 NKJV ...

God created and so be it. Jesus came and saved - so be it.

Does God love YEC's more than those who hold to Gap? Does God favor YEC-sters over OEC-ist?
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theophilus wrote:

Audie wrote: it is not correct to say that it is "assumed" that the fossils are the product of a long time period. "Assume" is what one does when there is no information to go on.

Exactly. And those who don't believe in the historical accuracy of the Bible don't have any information when they start their research. They don't believe God has intervened in natural events so they interpret the evidence in accordance with their beliefs.

Oh honestly, like everyone has not heard the Bible story.

As for the "historical accuracy"....lets see.

a) different people read the Bible to say different things. You assume your reqding is the correct one? Many do not agree.

b) how accurate is "accurate'? The Bible often uses metaphor, poetry, and approximations, like numbers rounded off to the nearest 1000.

They don't believe God has intervened in natural events so they interpret the evidence in accordance with their beliefs

Now how on earth would you know that, of know what level of intervention is being talked about? You just made that up!

God does not "intervene' when a gazelle is eaten by a leopard, and if the bones are left in a drying waterhole and get buried / fossilized, God didnt do that either.

A lot of scientists are very religious people, some are not.


What a scientist does is to just follow where the data leads. Interpreting according to some ideology is the height of intellectual dishonesty, whether the ideology is "no there cant be a god", or "God is behind it all".

theophilus wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:It is not a problem for the Gap theory about Noah's flood as Gap theorists do not deny Noah's flood and I believe there is evidence for Noah's flood even if science overlooks it.However the sun was shining during Noah's flood and so a lot of life that died in it would've decayed away

There is no "gap theory", that is a misuse of a scientific term to call it a theory.
There is a disproved hypothesis o nly.

Nobody is overlooking evidence, except for those who like to say there was a flood.
The data, evidence if you will, disproves the flood story.

Decay takes place night or day, in or out of water, btw.

The life would have been buried quickly with any chance to decay. That is the conditions required to produce fossils

.

How quickly? I can show you fossil bones that lay on the surface for over a year before being buried. And I can show you how you can tell how long it was. Or look at this
dinosaur mummy, for all the world like those photos you see of a dead dried out cow in the desert.

Audie wrote:

theophilus wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:It is not a problem for the Gap theory about Noah's flood as Gap theorists do not deny Noah's flood and I believe there is evidence for Noah's flood even if science overlooks it.However the sun was shining during Noah's flood and so a lot of life that died in it would've decayed away

There is no "gap theory", that is a misuse of a scientific term to call it a theory.
There is a disproved hypothesis o nly.

Nobody is overlooking evidence, except for those who like to say there was a flood.
The data, evidence if you will, disproves the flood story.

Decay takes place night or day, in or out of water, btw.

The life would have been buried quickly with any chance to decay. That is the conditions required to produce fossils

.

How quickly? I can show you fossil bones that lay on the surface for over a year before being buried. And I can show you how you can tell how long it was. Or look at this
dinosaur mummy, for all the world like those photos you see of a dead dried out cow in the desert.

This can only happen if they are frozen because the Gap theory teaches God turned the stars and sun off or the heavens became black.This is why wooly mammoths were frozen solid while they were eating.