Evidence for God from Science

SoCalExile wrote:So is there any evidence that Christians experience NDEs different from non-believers? Has anyone really gotten into the nuts-and-bolts of the afterlife in regards to NDEs?

I do think that people who have NDEs see what they need to see, and it's not necessarily a complete indication of what awaits on the other side.

Also, since God is timeless it begs the question, does Christ's sacrifice apply to all human beings regardless of when they lived? I think it might. It's a nice thought at least.

Socal, now about people seeing what they want to see in Nde's , the problem here is that when someone has a veridical nde there are too many commonalities to think this . It is after the veridical nde that people's experience with Nde's start to differ.

I was once on this Christian blog and he had a great answer for the Nde's of different realms and he said that in the Old Testament it talks about there being other realms before heaven and Howard storm the atheist that had the Christian nde of hell and heaven also elaborated when he said he was shown heaven that it was in some ways like an onion with many different layers to it .

They had a full video interview with him on this but it's been a while since I've seen it . I'll see if I can find it .

They had a full video interview with him on this but it's been a while since I've seen it . I'll see if I can find it .

bippy .. is this it ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVi1GAHrILI

One of the things we tend to forget is that no matter what is being seen it is how the individual mind PERCEIVES it and then is able to EXPLAIN it that can cause some issues.
We tend to be able to explain things ONLY in the context that makes sense to US and in ways that make sense to US and God knows this of course ( so does the adversary ) and even in death there is free will, we till choose how to accept and understand what we are seeing AND what it MEANS to US.

I remember reading the account of the NDE of that atheist neurosurgeon Dr.Eben Alexander, where he was told that nothing he did was wrong and so forth.
It seemed a bit to "rosy" a picture.

I think that for some people, their NDE is perceived BY THEM in the only way it can be for THEM and I also think that at times the adversary may be involved as well.

PaulSacramento wrote:One of the things we tend to forget is that no matter what is being seen it is how the individual mind PERCEIVES it and then is able to EXPLAIN it that can cause some issues.
We tend to be able to explain things ONLY in the context that makes sense to US and in ways that make sense to US and God knows this of course ( so does the adversary ) and even in death there is free will, we till choose how to accept and understand what we are seeing AND what it MEANS to US.

I remember reading the account of the NDE of that atheist neurosurgeon Dr.Eben Alexander, where he was told that nothing he did was wrong and so forth.
It seemed a bit to "rosy" a picture.

I think that for some people, their NDE is perceived BY THEM in the only way it can be for THEM and I also think that at times the adversary may be involved as well.

Actually Paul what eben said was he was told that while he was in that realm he was loved unconditionally and that he could do no wrong (not in this earthly realm), but I agree with the rest if what you said , and so does gary habermas , but one thing that comes out if Nde's is that they are starting to show that naturalism and materialism are the odd men out and that the human soul survives bodily death .

bippy123 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:One of the things we tend to forget is that no matter what is being seen it is how the individual mind PERCEIVES it and then is able to EXPLAIN it that can cause some issues.
We tend to be able to explain things ONLY in the context that makes sense to US and in ways that make sense to US and God knows this of course ( so does the adversary ) and even in death there is free will, we till choose how to accept and understand what we are seeing AND what it MEANS to US.

I remember reading the account of the NDE of that atheist neurosurgeon Dr.Eben Alexander, where he was told that nothing he did was wrong and so forth.
It seemed a bit to "rosy" a picture.

I think that for some people, their NDE is perceived BY THEM in the only way it can be for THEM and I also think that at times the adversary may be involved as well.

Actually Paul what eben said was he was told that while he was in that realm he was loved unconditionally and that he could do no wrong (not in this earthly realm), but I agree with the rest if what you said , and so does gary habermas , but one thing that comes out if Nde's is that they are starting to show that naturalism and materialism are the odd men out and that the human soul survives bodily death .

Indeed.
But I think we need to always have a qualifier here and that is what do we mean when we say "soul".

PaulSacramento wrote:

bippy123 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:One of the things we tend to forget is that no matter what is being seen it is how the individual mind PERCEIVES it and then is able to EXPLAIN it that can cause some issues.
We tend to be able to explain things ONLY in the context that makes sense to US and in ways that make sense to US and God knows this of course ( so does the adversary ) and even in death there is free will, we till choose how to accept and understand what we are seeing AND what it MEANS to US.

I remember reading the account of the NDE of that atheist neurosurgeon Dr.Eben Alexander, where he was told that nothing he did was wrong and so forth.
It seemed a bit to "rosy" a picture.

I think that for some people, their NDE is perceived BY THEM in the only way it can be for THEM and I also think that at times the adversary may be involved as well.

Actually Paul what eben said was he was told that while he was in that realm he was loved unconditionally and that he could do no wrong (not in this earthly realm), but I agree with the rest if what you said , and so does gary habermas , but one thing that comes out if Nde's is that they are starting to show that naturalism and materialism are the odd men out and that the human soul survives bodily death .

Indeed.
But I think we need to always have a qualifier here and that is what do we mean when we say "soul".

Good question Paul and actually one of the toughest questions to answer . The overwhelming evidence in nde research is now showing survival of consciousness after physical death. The next question that should be asked is whether consciousness is the soul or is consciousness only part of the soul?

I know the bible said that in the end we get resurrected bodies . How does this tie in with the consciousness that is left over from Nde's?
Very profound question Paul and I think theologians have been grappling with this one for centuries .

bippy123 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

bippy123 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:One of the things we tend to forget is that no matter what is being seen it is how the individual mind PERCEIVES it and then is able to EXPLAIN it that can cause some issues.
We tend to be able to explain things ONLY in the context that makes sense to US and in ways that make sense to US and God knows this of course ( so does the adversary ) and even in death there is free will, we till choose how to accept and understand what we are seeing AND what it MEANS to US.

I remember reading the account of the NDE of that atheist neurosurgeon Dr.Eben Alexander, where he was told that nothing he did was wrong and so forth.
It seemed a bit to "rosy" a picture.

I think that for some people, their NDE is perceived BY THEM in the only way it can be for THEM and I also think that at times the adversary may be involved as well.

Actually Paul what eben said was he was told that while he was in that realm he was loved unconditionally and that he could do no wrong (not in this earthly realm), but I agree with the rest if what you said , and so does gary habermas , but one thing that comes out if Nde's is that they are starting to show that naturalism and materialism are the odd men out and that the human soul survives bodily death .

Indeed.
But I think we need to always have a qualifier here and that is what do we mean when we say "soul".

Good question Paul and actually one of the toughest questions to answer . The overwhelming evidence in nde research is now showing survival of consciousness after physical death. The next question that should be asked is whether consciousness is the soul or is consciousness only part of the soul?

I know the bible said that in the end we get resurrected bodies . How does this tie in with the consciousness that is left over from Nde's?
Very profound question Paul and I think theologians have been grappling with this one for centuries .

It seems to me that in the OT it was clearer:
A soul is what a living creature had but only humans had a spirit.
A soul could die in that sense because soul meant life or the state of being alive and aware.
When humans died their spirit went back to God.

In the NT we give a blend of soul and spirit or even a "mixing" as the Hellenstic view of the soul was more like the Jewish view of the spirit and spirit was more like a ghost for the Greek educated masses.

I think that nowadays we intermix the two so that soul and spirit are basically the same thing.

PaulSacramento wrote:

bippy123 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

bippy123 wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:One of the things we tend to forget is that no matter what is being seen it is how the individual mind PERCEIVES it and then is able to EXPLAIN it that can cause some issues.
We tend to be able to explain things ONLY in the context that makes sense to US and in ways that make sense to US and God knows this of course ( so does the adversary ) and even in death there is free will, we till choose how to accept and understand what we are seeing AND what it MEANS to US.

I remember reading the account of the NDE of that atheist neurosurgeon Dr.Eben Alexander, where he was told that nothing he did was wrong and so forth.
It seemed a bit to "rosy" a picture.

I think that for some people, their NDE is perceived BY THEM in the only way it can be for THEM and I also think that at times the adversary may be involved as well.

Actually Paul what eben said was he was told that while he was in that realm he was loved unconditionally and that he could do no wrong (not in this earthly realm), but I agree with the rest if what you said , and so does gary habermas , but one thing that comes out if Nde's is that they are starting to show that naturalism and materialism are the odd men out and that the human soul survives bodily death .

Indeed.
But I think we need to always have a qualifier here and that is what do we mean when we say "soul".

Good question Paul and actually one of the toughest questions to answer . The overwhelming evidence in nde research is now showing survival of consciousness after physical death. The next question that should be asked is whether consciousness is the soul or is consciousness only part of the soul?

I know the bible said that in the end we get resurrected bodies . How does this tie in with the consciousness that is left over from Nde's?
Very profound question Paul and I think theologians have been grappling with this one for centuries .

It seems to me that in the OT it was clearer:
A soul is what a living creature had but only humans had a spirit.
A soul could die in that sense because soul meant life or the state of being alive and aware.
When humans died their spirit went back to God.

In the NT we give a blend of soul and spirit or even a "mixing" as the Hellenstic view of the soul was more like the Jewish view of the spirit and spirit was more like a ghost for the Greek educated masses.

I think that nowadays we intermix the two so that soul and spirit are basically the same thing.

Wow, thanks for the clarification Paul. So don't we have to go with what the New Testament says over the Old Testament ?

I've been thinking that a soul and spirit are different. But, I also think it's possible that a human soul and spirit are part of the same "thing". Like some animals have a soul. But maybe humans have a soul which includes a spirit.

Just not sure.

RickD wrote:I've been thinking that a soul and spirit are different. But, I also think it's possible that a human soul and spirit are part of the same "thing". Like some animals have a soul. But maybe humans have a soul which includes a spirit.

Just not sure.

I Think Humans are the only animals that possess a 'rational soul" of sorts .

RickD wrote:I've been thinking that a soul and spirit are different. But, I also think it's possible that a human soul and spirit are part of the same "thing". Like some animals have a soul. But maybe humans have a soul which includes a spirit.

Just not sure.

There is plenty of info available on the spiritual bodies of human beings. A lot of it falls into the "newage" or "mysticism" category.

eg. this is what I'm studying at the moment ...

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... sm#p160048

and

http://www.researchersoftruth.org/teachings/our-bodies

RickD wrote:I've been thinking that a soul and spirit are different. But, I also think it's possible that a human soul and spirit are part of the same "thing". Like some animals have a soul. But maybe humans have a soul which includes a spirit.

Just not sure.

Rick the more I try to understand the difference between the 2 terms the more confused I bet

bippy123 wrote:

RickD wrote:I've been thinking that a soul and spirit are different. But, I also think it's possible that a human soul and spirit are part of the same "thing". Like some animals have a soul. But maybe humans have a soul which includes a spirit.

Just not sure.

Rick the more I try to understand the difference between the 2 terms the more confused I bet

If casinos focused upon "soul" and "spirit", why then they might make more money.

EssentialSacrifice wrote:They had a full video interview with him on this but it's been a while since I've seen it . I'll see if I can find it .

bippy .. is this it ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVi1GAHrILI

This is one of his videos essential. Storm had the full blown nde with the works as he had a veridical nde in which his soul popped out of his lifeless body as he was looking at it and even tried telling his wife that he wasn't alive but she couldn't see his soul . Yes this interview was a part of a multipart interview where he also described the multi layers of heaven.

It sure sounds a little like a multiverse doesn't it ? In a way but not the materialistic version but God's version

Kurieuo wrote:

bippy123 wrote:

RickD wrote:I've been thinking that a soul and spirit are different. But, I also think it's possible that a human soul and spirit are part of the same "thing". Like some animals have a soul. But maybe humans have a soul which includes a spirit.

Just not sure.

Rick the more I try to understand the difference between the 2 terms the more confused I bet

If casinos focused upon "soul" and "spirit", why then they might make more money.

Good one buddy