TheQuestor wrote:So who was Christ calling to for help while he was nailed to the cross?
Questor, you are making an inference that cannot be backed up by your claim that Jesus was forsaken on the cross by the Father by him calling out for help in order to claim that Jesus was not God by your interpretation of Mat 27:46.
Jesus was not calling out for help. He went willingly to the cross as determined before the foundation of the world. He could have called how many angels to help him if he wanted too?
Let's look at this more...
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?" Mat 27:46
Let me educate you a bit on the Hebrew Tradition of learning so you can understand what is being said in the text. Jewish Tradition in bible interpretation was that when a verse was cited in a text, the context of that text is also implied. In fact the Jewish New Testament Commentary notes on Matthew 27:46 bring out this point:
In Judaism, when a Bible verse is cited its entire context is implied... Thus Yeshua refers all of Psalm 22 to himself; other of its verses are cited at Mat 27:35, Mat 27:39, John 19:28 and Heb 2:12.
Jewish New Testament Commentary
To understand what Jesus meant when he spoke in the recorded text, you need to read the last parts of Palms 22. This goes in line with the Jewish thought of making a statement so that one asks questions. This leads to more questions being asked and by this method one comes into understanding of what is actually being said. In other words, look at the whole picture. That is the Jewish tradition for learning.
You are making a mistake reading your meaning into the word translated
forsaken implying that Jesus was calling out for help and not realizing that Forsake can also actually be used in positive sense, rather than a negative one alone. In the Hebrew Roots Bible has an interesting note on Matthew 27:46 it states this same principle regarding this verse that ‘forsaking’ was not meant in a negative manner in which one infers that God the Father forsook Jesus in an absolute sense of absolute abandonment:
This verse has been greatly misquoted as the original Aramaic can mean to forsake in a bad way, but also can mean to leave in a good way, such as if you were an owner of a company and had to go away and left someone very trusted to care for your business while you were gone. From Isa 63:1-9, we see that only Messiah qualified to redeem Israel and it is stating here the honor given to Him for His perfect life and sacrifice.
Hebrew Roots Bible
This was not a forsaking as in total absolute abandonment as you imply Questor so that Jesus is asking for help. God the Father never left Jesus nor did Christ's divinity leave him either. The Aramaic phrase used by Jesus is a quote from Psalms 22:1. In fact, the statement/question format is important to go through so you and others see the big picture. How so?
It is a clear statement that is asking this:
Why am I being left to this fate? Those seeing this, and for those reading are lead to the next question - why did Jesus suffer this fate at the hand of sinners? Most folks stop and never ask the question and forget that Jesus did call himself God and that is one reason they nailed him to a cross. Oh how folks would love to do that today - just like you, Questor...
Matt 27:46, sabachthani; is Aramaic word meaning, "Thou hast forsaken me," it is in 2nd person sing. with the 1st. person Suffix…This is interesting in that Jesus is the 2nd person of the Godhead noted. The 1st person suffix is interesting too denoting there is more going on than meets the eye. Then there is the Greek word translated
forsaken which means simply
to leave behind in any place or any state… -- Why am I in this state of suffering ---
So you need to ask the question, why was it necessary for Jesus to be led to, and go through the crucifixion? That is the thrust of Matt 27:46. The answer is found in Psalms 22:24-31 as Jesus is quoting verse one indicating that the whole Psalm is important grasp in order to understand actually what he was saying during extreme pain suffering. Psalms 22 has the answer which confirms the why the necessity of the undergoing the crucifixion was justified which is mentioned in…
Psalms 22:24-31, "
For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from Him; But when He cried to Him, He heard. 25 My praise shall be of You in the great assembly; I will pay My vows before those who fear Him. 26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied; Those who seek Him will praise the LORD. Let your heart live forever! 27 All the ends of the world Shall remember and turn to the LORD, And all the families of the nations Shall worship before You.
"28 For the kingdom is the LORD's, And He rules over the nations. 29 All the prosperous of the earth Shall eat and worship; All those who go down to the dust Shall bow before Him, Even he who cannot keep himself alive. 30 A posterity shall serve Him. It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation, 31 They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born, That He has done this."
In fact, what Jesus is saying is this, “Why am I being abandon to suffer like this….what’s the true purpose for my suffering?”
Verse 24,
But when He cried to Him, He heard… (Please note: sabachthani; word meaning, "Thou hast forsaken me," is in 2nd person sing. with the 1st. pers. Suffix). He heard means, he was never forsaken... but an answer is being granted to you and I pointing to why it was necessary for him to suffer on the cross through those words. It was necessary because it was ordained by God for the forgiveness of sins. This necessity is brought out in Acts 2:23,24 thus answering why it was necessary to be delivered up, forsaken to the fate of Crucifixion…
The Apostle Peter verified this again in Acts 3:18, "
But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled."
Also in Acts 4:27,28, "
For truly against Your Holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done."
Why was Jesus abandoned/forsaken to bear the fate of crucifixion – answer - in order to bring forth salvation... Jesus uttered those words upon the cross in sync with His own (John 12:27), the Father’s, and Holy Spirit will. Questor, you don’t get the triune nature of God do you?
In fact, in Matt 27:50 Jesus cried out again. In Luke 23:46 and John 19:30 shares what He said... It is Finished...
Psalms 22 is finished, redemption is finished, God’s unified will is finished… Grace revealed…
What’s that mean?
Luke 23:34, "
Then Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." And they divided His garments and cast lots. {Please note that only God can forgive - erase clean - sins... Isa 43:11, Isa 12:2, Isa 45:21,22 - why? }
Acts 3:17 "
Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers.
Questor have you consider that those in charge put Jesus to death on the cross because he said often that he is God, the I AM - John 8:58,59?
Now if Jesus isn't who he said he was, then who was he? Have you ever thought of that? If not God in human flesh come to save human beings, etc, then his own testimony that He is God, the I AM, the one who erases sin, makes him a lair - a sinning savior. How could a lair be trusted to save humanity?
Jesus was put on a sham trial because he said he was God. It is you, claiming he was not. What side of the fence does that place you?
Questor, you do not get the true purpose of the cross and how Jesus could be both 100 percent God and 100 percent man in order to bring to light the ignorance of sin in us and awaken us to see it plainly so that we can turn to him, his grace shown, by faith and become his own beloved, do you?
Let me help you by personalizing these bible verses…
Mat 26:25 Then (Questor), who was betraying Him, answered and said, "Rabbi, is it I?" He said to him, "You have said it."
Mat 26:59-60 Now the chief (Questor), the (elder Questor), and all the council of (Questor) sought false testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, 60 but found none. Even though many false witnesses came forward, they found none. But at last two (Questors) came forward…
Mat 26:63-64 But Jesus kept silent. And (Questor) ... said to Him, "I put you under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" 64 Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Mat 26:66-67 What do you think?" (Questor) answered and said, "He is deserving of death." 67 Then (Questor) spat in His face and beat Him; and other (Questors) struck Him with the palms of their hands...
Mat 27:1-2 When morning came, all the chief Questor and elder Questors of the people plotted against Jesus to put Him to death. 2 And when they had bound Him, Questor led Him away and delivered Him to Pontius Pilate the governor.
Mat 27:22-23 Pilate said to Questor, "What then shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?" (Questor) said to him, "Let Him be crucified!" 23 Then the governor said, "Why, what evil has He done?" But (Questor) cried out all the more, saying, "Let Him be crucified!"
Mat 27:27-31 Then the (Questors) of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole garrison around Him. 28 And (Questors) stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him. 29 When (Questor) had twisted a crown of thorns, (Questor) put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand. And the (Questors) bowed the knee before Him and mocked Him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 30 Then (Questor) spat on Him, and took the reed and struck Him on the head. 31 and when (Questor) had mocked Him, Questor led Him away to be crucified...
So the question comes - why did Jesus say - why hast thou forsaken me?
Answer: to save Questor...
2 Co 5:18-21,
…that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
All Bible quotes are from the NKJV
-
-
-