Kurieuo wrote:Scripture aside, I'm not sure there is necessarily disagreement between you (PaulS and Jac) over Satan being the ruler of this world.
That is, if you both were to explore what such a title does and does not entail.
PaulS, you wrote:
I have never been convinced of the whole "satan is the ruler of this world" thing.
Never made any sense to me.
God creates this world then just gives it to Satan and His fallen angels?
Where in the bible does it state that God has given this world for satan to rule?
I'm sure Jac would not accept the premises in your questions
-- that God creates this world and "just gives it to Satan" and "God has given this world for satan to rule."
At least I don't anyway. So regardless of Scripture, I think your intuitions are correct Paul.
Which means it is just a matter of how to understand the passages in question.
Rather than focusing upon "world" I think it is better to take the fuller phrase -- what does "prince of this world" or "god of this world" mean?
Satan was the first to rebel against God and is diametrically opposed to anything "God".
He is understood to be God's most powerful being created... and then he fell taking and leading many angels in opposition to God.
Satan is the "head" of the rebellion. He even helped to lead humanity astray and to this day blinds people.
In this respect satan is the master deceiver -- the ruler of "the world" in opposition to God.
Understand this world is temporary and weak. It will pass away and come to an end.
Satan and all who followed after or were deceived by him -- their time is limited.
The new world is everlasting and is comprised of all who will be in God's kingdom in Christ. 1 John 2:17
God has not handed the world over to satan, rather the world follows after satan in their willful rejection of God.
You both might disagree with some subtleties in my words, but I think by and large you both would likely be more in agreement than not.
I was a bit under the weather this past week after returning from a trip to the Dakotas Dec 14, so I missed responding to some of these post. Anyway, I see it has taken off into a new direction. Therefore, let me cite something from memory from a series of teachings on the points brought up concerning how satan became god of this world. These are points from various teaching on this matter as best as can recall.
1-Satan being god of this world implies - a system of rebellion, control issues, etc and etc.
2-Rev 12:7,8,9 at some point there was a conflict in heaven and Satan rebelled. He and his followers were cast down upon the earth... (Isa 14:1-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-20)
3-Gen 1:26-31 - Humanity was granted ruler-ship of the earth and had authority over all things upon earth. Humanity's first parents had authority over all things that creeped upon the ground. A serpent creeps upon the ground.
4-Mankind was in charge over the beings like the serpent in the Garden as it can be implied and possibly one of Adam and Eve's roles was as guardian of the earth and warden too.
5-Matt 25:41 - a place called sheol - hell was made for the devil and his followers.
6-Fall of man - the inmates took over the roost and set up a system of rebellion in man for various reason, one to entrap God to act contrary to himself etc and etc. Basically, in typical inmate fashion, the guard was gamed and then joined the rebellion against God's word and ways... Example: Inmates took over the jail so to speak...
7-Satan became god - ruler of the system of rebellion upon this earth, god of this world's system...which controls rebellion in people, yet, people still have rulership over the earth too. However, now joined in with the rebellion and governed by loving darkness more than God's light.
8-Jesus came and restored right relationship with God through the Cross and Resurrection. Thus he restored humanities authority over the fallen angels as we are called his disciples too (Luke 10:19-20 etc and etc...) and in so doing, order is restored and God remains true to himself, his ways, and being in all things.
That is the general gist of the issue of satan ruling the world of rebellion, sin, and death. There is a lot more on this but I think one has enough info and the Holy Spirit to reveal more on this matter as He so wills and leads.
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