Re: Forgiveness for demons?
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:51 pm
Scripture aside, I'm not sure there is necessarily disagreement between you (PaulS and Jac) over Satan being the ruler of this world.
That is, if you both were to explore what such a title does and does not entail.
PaulS, you wrote:
-- that God creates this world and "just gives it to Satan" and "God has given this world for satan to rule."
At least I don't anyway. So regardless of Scripture, I think your intuitions are correct Paul.
Which means it is just a matter of how to understand the passages in question.
Rather than focusing upon "world" I think it is better to take the fuller phrase -- what does "prince of this world" or "god of this world" mean?
Satan was the first to rebel against God and is diametrically opposed to anything "God".
He is understood to be God's most powerful being created... and then he fell taking and leading many angels in opposition to God.
Satan is the "head" of the rebellion. He even helped to lead humanity astray and to this day blinds people.
In this respect satan is the master deceiver -- the ruler of "the world" in opposition to God.
Understand this world is temporary and weak. It will pass away and come to an end.
Satan and all who followed after or were deceived by him -- their time is limited.
The new world is everlasting and is comprised of all who will be in God's kingdom in Christ. 1 John 2:17
God has not handed the world over to satan, rather the world follows after satan in their willful rejection of God.
You both might disagree with some subtleties in my words, but I think by and large you both would likely be more in agreement than not.
That is, if you both were to explore what such a title does and does not entail.
PaulS, you wrote:
I'm sure Jac would not accept the premises in your questionsI have never been convinced of the whole "satan is the ruler of this world" thing.
Never made any sense to me.
God creates this world then just gives it to Satan and His fallen angels?
Where in the bible does it state that God has given this world for satan to rule?
-- that God creates this world and "just gives it to Satan" and "God has given this world for satan to rule."
At least I don't anyway. So regardless of Scripture, I think your intuitions are correct Paul.
Which means it is just a matter of how to understand the passages in question.
Rather than focusing upon "world" I think it is better to take the fuller phrase -- what does "prince of this world" or "god of this world" mean?
Satan was the first to rebel against God and is diametrically opposed to anything "God".
He is understood to be God's most powerful being created... and then he fell taking and leading many angels in opposition to God.
Satan is the "head" of the rebellion. He even helped to lead humanity astray and to this day blinds people.
In this respect satan is the master deceiver -- the ruler of "the world" in opposition to God.
Understand this world is temporary and weak. It will pass away and come to an end.
Satan and all who followed after or were deceived by him -- their time is limited.
The new world is everlasting and is comprised of all who will be in God's kingdom in Christ. 1 John 2:17
God has not handed the world over to satan, rather the world follows after satan in their willful rejection of God.
You both might disagree with some subtleties in my words, but I think by and large you both would likely be more in agreement than not.