Evidence for God from Science

B. W. wrote:

neo-x wrote:

B. W. wrote:

Canuckster1127 wrote:Some food for thought. Of reformed theologians I find more good nuggets with Tim Keller than many others.

We also thought it was important to begin our confession with God rather than with Scripture. This is significant. The Enlightenment was overconfident about human rationality. Some strands of it assumed it was possible to build systems of thought on unassailable foundations that could be absolutely certain to unaided human reason.

Despite their frequent vilification of the Enlightenment, many conservative evangelicals have nevertheless been shaped by it. This can be seen in how many evangelical statements of faith start with the Scripture, not with God. They proceed from Scripture to doctrine through rigorous exegesis in order to build (what they consider) an absolutely sure, guaranteed-true-to-Scripture theology.

The problem is that this is essentially a foundationalist approach to knowledge. It ignores the degree to which our cultural location affects our interpretation of the Bible, and it assumes a very rigid subject-object distinction. It ignores historical theology, philosophy, and cultural reflection.

Starting with the Scripture leads readers to the over confidence that their exegesis of biblical texts has produced a system of perfect doctrinal truth. This can create pride and rigidity because it may not sufficiently acknowledge the fallenness of human reason.

We believe it is best to start with God, to declare (with John Calvin, Institutes 1.1) that without knowledge of God we cannot know ourselves, our world, or anything else. If there is no God, we would have no reason to trust our reason.

~ D. A. Carson and Timothy Keller, Gospel-Centered Ministry (Wheaton, IL: Crossway, 2011), 6 in Bird, Evangelical Theology, 93, n. 11.

Question does come to this:


Can a one really know God personally without the bible?

If so, how could you be sure if you are correct

B.W it gets more complicated namely how does one read the bible and which denomination then to follow.

Then you'll understand one of the many ways how the Lord test the righteous.

The truth of the bible is this: light separates darkness, or, better illustrated, pushes darkness out of a Christians life, exposing what one loves more than God himself.

The bible is one instrument in this process: it exposes a lot. That is why I keep telling folks that the finger prints of a superior intelligence is all over this book that makes it more than just merely inspired - rather it is God breathed, blowing life back into man/woman, light that will either remove or solidify the personal darkness one is blind too.

What does it show you about yourself?
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What does it show about yourself?

I think that is a great question BW.
The bible has revealed more about myself than it has ever exposed another, either personally, theologically, denominationaly ect.
It has revealed the ugly, awful truth about myself and for that I am so very blessed.
It has indeed exposed what in life I have placed before God. It has exposed my arrogance, my vanity, my stubbornness and the list goes on......
Now without the spirit of God working within this could have never been possible, it changes those words on a page that my eyes read and mind interprets into the living, breathing word of God, that speaks and convicts my spirit.
There were times in past years when I found passages of the bible very difficult to understand, not on an intelluctal level but spiritually. Especially the Old Testamnet. God spoke to my spirit and lead me away from the OT for a time and I focused on the New Testament. Like a babe, I needed to take baby steps and grow. As my maturity grew, and my relationship with God, I could then go back and re-read those passages and be given an understanding I could never have previously had. That understanding came through HS in conjunction with the living word.
I am not speaking about creation interpretations and the like but rather life-saving lessons on faith, trust and love.
Some things just aren't up for interpretation. The bible delivers them with perfectness and without error.
God I believe has blessed us with His word as a life-saving tool to lead us onto the path to Himself.
I understand only too well the absolute importance of the Holy Spirit, without His spirit then this tool of faith can be turned and twisted to whatever the heart desires. If the heart desires God, then His word will speak to us in a way that can turn the hardest heart and most resistant spirit.
There have been times when I cannot hear or feel the HS, to correct and convict. There has been to much background noise to gather the stillness to do so. I let the world and myself get so loud and over-bearing my ears are no longer listening. That is when the living word of God, with its beauty and never ceasing lessons, speaks to me in way that merely a 'book' could ever do. God speaks to me within those pages, it is food for the soul, by which I could never grow in my relationship with The Almighty without. It drowns out the world, it strips me bear and leaves my spirit exposed, it is within this vulnerability that God has done the most amazing work on me. It has brought me to my knees and left my weeping, laughing, rejoicing and praising.
It is in conjunction with the HS my life-boat, when I'm drowning in the world it's my life-jacket.
God has given us everything we need to grow with Him and in Him through His word. Anything else we try and muster from it is our folly not Gods.
The most important things I have learnt within those pages is humility and love and it delivers it in perfection.

Don't like 2nd Timothy 3:16? How about Jesus saying "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Jesus just quoted the bible when being tempted.

Devil went down to Jordon
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jow6XTwRs5g

Canuckster1127 wrote:Some food for thought. Of reformed theologians I find more good nuggets with Tim Keller than many others.

We also thought it was important to begin our confession with God rather than with Scripture. This is significant. The Enlightenment was overconfident about human rationality. Some strands of it assumed it was possible to build systems of thought on unassailable foundations that could be absolutely certain to unaided human reason.

Despite their frequent vilification of the Enlightenment, many conservative evangelicals have nevertheless been shaped by it. This can be seen in how many evangelical statements of faith start with the Scripture, not with God. They proceed from Scripture to doctrine through rigorous exegesis in order to build (what they consider) an absolutely sure, guaranteed-true-to-Scripture theology.

The problem is that this is essentially a foundationalist approach to knowledge. It ignores the degree to which our cultural location affects our interpretation of the Bible, and it assumes a very rigid subject-object distinction. It ignores historical theology, philosophy, and cultural reflection.

Starting with the Scripture leads readers to the over confidence that their exegesis of biblical texts has produced a system of perfect doctrinal truth. This can create pride and rigidity because it may not sufficiently acknowledge the fallenness of human reason.

We believe it is best to start with God, to declare (with John Calvin, Institutes 1.1) that without knowledge of God we cannot know ourselves, our world, or anything else. If there is no God, we would have no reason to trust our reason.

~ D. A. Carson and Timothy Keller, Gospel-Centered Ministry (Wheaton, IL: Crossway, 2011), 6 in Bird, Evangelical Theology, 93, n. 11.

I haven't read all this thread yet, just wanted to say I believe in God and accept Jesus as my Saviour and I know very little about Scripture. I didn't need Scripture to find God but I might need it to know Him better.