Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

Yhwhhallowed wrote:Because when it comes to be personal it causes confliction and this top is not about me

I'm asking as a moderator. We need to know what you believe, so we know your position.

So, please answer the question.

Thank you

Idk really hense the reason i am not baptised into anything. I am still self absorbing all the information i can to make a proper choice. God says in account through Mathew 7:7 "Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you." With that in my due time i will make a choice until then no offense intended but i will not be rushed.

Yhwhhallowed wrote:

RickD wrote:

Yhwhhallowed wrote:Because when it comes to be personal it causes confliction and this top is not about me

I'm asking as a moderator. We need to know what you believe, so we know your position.

So, please answer the question.

Thank you

Idk really hense the reason i am not baptised into anything. I am still self absorbing all the information i can to make a proper choice. God says in account through Mathew 7:7 "Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you." With that in my due time i will make a choice until then no offense intended but i will not be rushed.

Thank you for your answer.

We have had many people come here under the guise of being Christians, to promote their false religion, or aberrant Christianity. I'm not saying you are doing that, but as a moderator, it's my job to make sure members aren't using this board as a platform to promote their false beliefs. And as you say you are still open and searching for the truth, I'll take you at your word.

I hope you understand my position.

Thanks

YHwhh wrote:
God cannot directly deal with imperfect man because he is perfect, he also has no begining or end and cannot***
God cant self destruct ( yep )nor can God be killed, (nope )therefore if he was to be Jesus the sacrifice could not of been met becsuse dead would be required. How can you kill someone that brings himself back to life. ( how can you come back to life if not first killed ?)It would mean he never actually died...(what )

I feel like I'm watching the Princess Bride here, with Inigo Montoya saying about the Sicilian kidnapper of Buttercup " I do not think he knows the meaning of the word"

In this instance Yh, the word not understood is Triune. God the father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. 3 Persons / 1 God

God the Father is in heaven, outside of our known universe
God the Son, still God, was an earth bound human (ManGod)
God the Holy Spirit was in heaven only and now (since the Ascension) is currently earth bound and in heaven.

So God cannot, would not self destruct ...
God can be killed, (see the death of Jesus) albeit in earthly human form, but none the less God


literely die to cover hour sins as being Jesus for 3 days. Bye the bye, what is it your saying here ? Jesus was only God for 3 days ? I need clarification on this to better understand your meaning, which is somewhat surprising considering all the faith based and denominational delving you claim in your original post.

I'm not an apologist like the vast majority of those here in this forum, but what you've said and how you've said it has confused me and your actual feelings of:

Who is Jesus to you ? ... is Jesus God or god ? You seem to have a great grasp of the JW but far less a grasp of traditional Christianity, which is why I ask.


I

The JW religion is a mess, always was, always will be there.
Not much of a gray area there.

Yhwhhallowed wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

Yhwhhallowed wrote:If anyone has questions that require sincere answering about Jehovah's Witnesses. I will do my best to fill in the gaps for you, although i am not personally a Jehovah's Witness I was raised in the knowledge my entire life. I am not baptised into it or any other religion but had the pleasure in studying the small differences of many different forms of of Christianity as a whole. From Catholic beliefs to Methodist from Baptists to Pentecostals. Give me your question.

I love JWs. Everything is largely kept superficial with JWs who currently visit me.
They drop off their book, have a quick chat and away they go to return a month later.

But, how would they respond to John 1 with Jesus being the creator of everything that was ever created?

Read this http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/videos ... t-john-1-1

Wow, what a mess.

Kurieuo wrote:To repeat my message again:

• All Things That Exist >>
  
  • 1) All things that never came into being = GOD
    2) All things that came into being = All created things
  In which category does "a god" belong to?
  Keep in mind verse 3 which reads: "All things came into existence through him [this "god"], and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." (NWT)

I'm asking this of you.

I'm guessing that you do not wish to tackle this question for some reason?
(given none of the articles linked to dealt with it, and you did not respond)

Personally, I do not see a way out of the dilemma,
so I'll put that as a strike against JW doctrine in this instance.

Kurieuo wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:To repeat my message again:

• All Things That Exist >>
  
  • 1) All things that never came into being = GOD
    2) All things that came into being = All created things
  In which category does "a god" belong to?
  Keep in mind verse 3 which reads: "All things came into existence through him [this "god"], and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." (NWT)

I'm asking this of you.

I'm guessing that you do not wish to tackle this question for some reason?
(given none of the articles linked to dealt with it, and you did not respond)

Personally, I do not see a way out of the dilemma,
so I'll put that as a strike against JW doctrine in this instance.

The issue is quite clear:
Jesus is NOT a created being, there is NO statement of that anywhere.
There are explicit statements that He is OF God, has the same Nature As God and that ALL was created BY Him, Through Him and for Him.

I thought so too, but I was wanting a JW to see the logic of their rendering "a god" means this "god" (with a lowercase 'g') was uncreated according to verse 3.

Yhwhhallowed wrote:

Starhunter wrote:My question is,

They believe that Jesus came to earth in 1914, - do they still believe that now, and if so, - is Jesus here somewhere, and what for? What is He supposed to be doing?

No they never believed Jesus came in 1914.

Jehovah's witnesses believe in 1914 being a significant date marked by studying the biblical timeline and prophecies. Its called bible chronology. They believe that 1914 was the day that Jesus was declared the king or established ruler in the heavens. Also declaring that leadership required a complete cleansing of the heavens, as war broke out within the heavens between Jesus and Satan along with the followers of both side, in turn they believe that was the exact year Satan and his hords were cast down to the confinements of the earth, believing that satan during that banishment having great anger knowing that his time was limited. Thus causing chaos during that marked year that had strange relation to the cause of the first world war, that weirdly happened starting that previously marked year 1914 by biblical chronology.

Thanks for that, it seems like they have changed their view on that in the last 20 yrs?

Yhwhhallowed wrote:

RickD wrote:

Yhwhhallowed wrote:Because when it comes to be personal it causes confliction and this top is not about me

I'm asking as a moderator. We need to know what you believe, so we know your position.

So, please answer the question.

Thank you

Idk really hense the reason i am not baptised into anything. I am still self absorbing all the information i can to make a proper choice. God says in account through Mathew 7:7 "Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you." With that in my due time i will make a choice until then no offense intended but i will not be rushed.

First off you need to make sure you have been saved by Jesus and if you haven't been then you need to seek him and ask him to save you.You need to understand who Jesus is and accept what God's word says over what a preacher,teacher,etc teaches,put your faith in him and not in a church or church doctrine.You also need to understand that Jesus died on a cross to save sinners like you and me are,this was the reason God came in human form to save us.God humbled himself to become a human and he was born into this world by birth from a woman just like we are.We could not relate to God had he came as something else or came into this world some other way.Had he came as an alien we could not relate to him and so he came the way we come into this world.Jesus lived a perfect life for us sinners who can't and salvation is a gift from God by grace.

We cannot save ourself and so you need to know to reject any religious doctrine that teaches you can save yourself like JW's,avoid churches like that.Find a church that teaches and preaches salvation by grace through Jesus Christ instead.You say you don't want to be rushed but you could die before you make a choice,today is the day of salvation through Jesus Christ and not anything you can do by works including baptism.Learn to go by God's word and not yours or anybody else's opinions and you do this by reading it,the more you read it and understand it the more you can tell when you are faced with false doctrine.I have changed my mind many times while going to church through the years,I have been faced with good teaching and bad teaching but I believe God's word and go by it.It is not about my denomination and what it teaches,it is about what God's word says.

I know God made salvation too easy for religious people but it is better to do it God's way than ours.Get rid of this idea you can live a certain way or do certain things to make you righteous before God because you can't and you make a mockery out of what Jesus did for you and rely on him only for your salvation and if you do you will automatically do things God wants you to do,not what a denomination wants you to do.

OK, i just had another door knock by my friendly neighborhood JW's (they, as usual, ignored the "Do Not Knock" sign at my front door). As usual we argued for about an hour and got nowhere.


I need to know a detailed explanation of the 144000 saved. (as it is mentioned twice in revelations)

More specifically, if so, how are they misinterpreting the scripture ?

It seems that the 144K applies only to their church for some reason and the two JW'S that I spoke two are adamant they they are not one of the chosen 144k but are more likely to stay on earth for 1000 years. So not everyone gets saved into heaven that has faith in Jesus Christ, it would seem (according to them).

LittleHamster wrote:OK, i just had another door knock by my friendly neighborhood JW's (they, as usual, ignored the "Do Not Knock" sign at my front door). As usual we argued for about an hour and got nowhere.


I need to know a detailed explanation of the 144000 saved. (as it is mentioned twice in revelations)

More specifically, if so, how are they misinterpreting the scripture ?

It seems that the 144K applies only to their church for some reason and the two JW'S that I spoke two are adamant they they are not one of the chosen 144k but are more likely to stay on earth for 1000 years. So not everyone gets saved into heaven that has faith in Jesus Christ, it would seem (according to them).

The JW's view the number as a literal one ( and of course apply it to their annointed ones only) and the description of those 144K ( from the tribes of Israel, virgins, etc) as metaphorical.
As usual, they show no consistency on their interpretation of scripture.

Any reading of Revelation in the most direct manner shows they are incorrect, as usual.

PaulSacramento wrote:

LittleHamster wrote:OK, i just had another door knock by my friendly neighborhood JW's (they, as usual, ignored the "Do Not Knock" sign at my front door). As usual we argued for about an hour and got nowhere.


I need to know a detailed explanation of the 144000 saved. (as it is mentioned twice in revelations)

More specifically, if so, how are they misinterpreting the scripture ?

It seems that the 144K applies only to their church for some reason and the two JW'S that I spoke two are adamant they they are not one of the chosen 144k but are more likely to stay on earth for 1000 years. So not everyone gets saved into heaven that has faith in Jesus Christ, it would seem (according to them).

The JW's view the number as a literal one ( and of course apply it to their annointed ones only) and the description of those 144K ( from the tribes of Israel, virgins, etc) as metaphorical.
As usual, they show no consistency on their interpretation of scripture.

Any reading of Revelation in the most direct manner shows they are incorrect, as usual.

I guess that's why discussing the scripture with them seems to become a bit difficult after a while. They seem to mix-n-match bits of scripture which they take literally and then they take other bits metaphorically and then add a pinch of Charles Russell and behold ! The TRUTH !

Then I tried to talk to them about my own direct experiences with the holy spirit, the advocate, gifts of knowledge, etc.. but they refute it as nonsense. They are not open to any knowledge that deviates, even slightly, from their version of doctrine.

Part of me wants to help them but it maybe a case of (and I hate saying it) " xxxxxx x xxxx xxxxxxxxx xx xxx xxxxx, xxxx xx xx wise in his own eyes"

LittleHamster wrote:OK, i just had another door knock by my friendly neighborhood JW's (they, as usual, ignored the "Do Not Knock" sign at my front door). As usual we argued for about an hour and got nowhere.


I need to know a detailed explanation of the 144000 saved. (as it is mentioned twice in revelations)

More specifically, if so, how are they misinterpreting the scripture ?

It seems that the 144K applies only to their church for some reason and the two JW'S that I spoke two are adamant they they are not one of the chosen 144k but are more likely to stay on earth for 1000 years. So not everyone gets saved into heaven that has faith in Jesus Christ, it would seem (according to them).

I always wanted to ask them about that number of JWs is more than 144k probably.
So not all are the chosen ones. There is the answer.

Ok, I have a question. If you walk the street and see two JWs offering Awake, is there any chance of talking them out of their JW faith?