Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

You guys are fond of the line "Who'd die for a lie?" when speaking of martyrs.

Yes! Because nobody is willing to die for a lie,they die for what they believe is true just like Islamic terrorists,they believe it is true about the virgins.Therefore Christianity cannot be a made up religion based on lies because the followers of Jesus who were killed for preaching about Jesus rising from the dead were willing to die in order to preach about Jesus and how he died and rose again to save you.Your point actually is evidence Christianity is true,people are willing to die for truth.

Huh?

With that logic, jim jones was Jesus Christ.

Nope,not at all,people only die for what they believe is true even in the Jim Jones thing.The disciples knew they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and they died for that truth,people don't die for made up lies,they die for what they believe is true.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

You guys are fond of the line "Who'd die for a lie?" when speaking of martyrs.

Yes! Because nobody is willing to die for a lie,they die for what they believe is true just like Islamic terrorists,they believe it is true about the virgins.Therefore Christianity cannot be a made up religion based on lies because the followers of Jesus who were killed for preaching about Jesus rising from the dead were willing to die in order to preach about Jesus and how he died and rose again to save you.Your point actually is evidence Christianity is true,people are willing to die for truth.

Huh?

With that logic, jim jones was Jesus Christ.

Nope,not at all,people only die for what they believe is true even in the Jim Jones thing.The disciples knew they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and they died for that truth,people don't die for made up lies,they die for what they believe is true.

So, Jim Jones telling his followers that he was a reincarnation of Jesus, wasn't a made up lie?

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

You guys are fond of the line "Who'd die for a lie?" when speaking of martyrs.

Yes! Because nobody is willing to die for a lie,they die for what they believe is true just like Islamic terrorists,they believe it is true about the virgins.Therefore Christianity cannot be a made up religion based on lies because the followers of Jesus who were killed for preaching about Jesus rising from the dead were willing to die in order to preach about Jesus and how he died and rose again to save you.Your point actually is evidence Christianity is true,people are willing to die for truth.

Huh?

With that logic, jim jones was Jesus Christ.

Nope,not at all,people only die for what they believe is true even in the Jim Jones thing.The disciples knew they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and they died for that truth,people don't die for made up lies,they die for what they believe is true.

So, Jim Jones telling his followers that he was a reincarnation of Jesus, wasn't a made up lie?

No the point is they believed he was,just like the disciples believed they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead.People die for what they believe is true and not make-believe.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Yes! Because nobody is willing to die for a lie,they die for what they believe is true just like Islamic terrorists,they believe it is true about the virgins.Therefore Christianity cannot be a made up religion based on lies because the followers of Jesus who were killed for preaching about Jesus rising from the dead were willing to die in order to preach about Jesus and how he died and rose again to save you.Your point actually is evidence Christianity is true,people are willing to die for truth.

Huh?

With that logic, jim jones was Jesus Christ.

Nope,not at all,people only die for what they believe is true even in the Jim Jones thing.The disciples knew they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and they died for that truth,people don't die for made up lies,they die for what they believe is true.

So, Jim Jones telling his followers that he was a reincarnation of Jesus, wasn't a made up lie?

No the point is they believed he was,just like the disciples believed they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead.People die for what they believe is true and not make-believe.

Your point is wrong. You probably should've said that nobody is willing to die for what they think is a lie. But instead, you said that "nobody is willing to die for a lie". And, "people don't die for made up lies".

What you meant to say, was not what you actually said. I understand what you meant. You just said it so you contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

="RickD"]

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Yes! Because nobody is willing to die for a lie,they die for what they believe is true just like Islamic terrorists,they believe it is true about the virgins.Therefore Christianity cannot be a made up religion based on lies because the followers of Jesus who were killed for preaching about Jesus rising from the dead were willing to die in order to preach about Jesus and how he died and rose again to save you.Your point actually is evidence Christianity is true,people are willing to die for truth.

Huh?

With that logic, jim jones was Jesus Christ. :shock

Nope,not at all,people only die for what they believe is true even in the Jim Jones thing.The disciples knew they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and they died for that truth,people don't die for made up lies,they die for what they believe is true.

So, Jim Jones telling his followers that he was a reincarnation of Jesus, wasn't a made up lie?

No the point is they believed he was,just like the disciples believed they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead.People die for what they believe is true and not make-believe.

Your point is wrong. You probably should've said that nobody is willing to die for what they think is a lie. But instead, you said that "nobody is willing to die for a lie". And, "people don't die for made up lies".

What you meant to say, was not what you actually said. I understand what you meant. You just said it so you contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

I don't believe people die for lies,I believe they are willing to die for what they believe it is true,even if it is'nt and when we are talking about cults or false religions we must give Christianity the same view and that is people don't die for lies,they die for what they believe is true so the Jim Jones cult believed it was true and were willing to die,its the same thing with Jesus's disciples they believe they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and were willing to die and did.It makes Christianity true and false religions false.

ACB wrote:
I don't believe people die for lies,I believe they are willing to die for what they believe it is true,even if it is'nt and when we are talking about cults or false religions we must give Christianity the same view and that is people don't die for lies,they die for what they believe is true so the Jim Jones cult believed it was true and were willing to die,its the same thing with Jesus's disciples they believe they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and were willing to die and did.It makes Christianity true and false religions false.

You did it again.
Of course people die for lies. Just because they don't think it's a lie, that doesn't mean it isn't a lie.

A hypothetical example... I claim to be a reincarnation of Jesus Christ. And I convince you that the only way God's kingdom will come to you, is if you sacrifice your life in my honor. So let's assume hypothetically, that you believe me, and kill yourself. Then afterwards, we find out that I lied. You died for a lie.

I hope you understand that people can and do die for made up lies all the time.

RickD wrote:

ACB wrote:
I don't believe people die for lies,I believe they are willing to die for what they believe it is true,even if it is'nt and when we are talking about cults or false religions we must give Christianity the same view and that is people don't die for lies,they die for what they believe is true so the Jim Jones cult believed it was true and were willing to die,its the same thing with Jesus's disciples they believe they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and were willing to die and did.It makes Christianity true and false religions false.

You did it again.
Of course people die for lies. Just because they don't think it's a lie, that doesn't mean it isn't a lie.

A hypothetical example... I claim to be a reincarnation of Jesus Christ. And I convince you that the only way God's kingdom will come to you, is if you sacrifice your life in my honor. So let's assume hypothetically, that you believe me, and kill yourself. Then afterwards, we find out that I lied. You died for a lie.

I hope you understand that people can and do die for made up lies all the time.

I died because I believed you was telling me the truth.If you told me you were the son of God and would rise again on the third day after being killed and I watched as you were killed and then I saw you after you rose from the dead I would die to tell people you did indeed rise from the dead,no matter what people said or did.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

ACB wrote:
I don't believe people die for lies,I believe they are willing to die for what they believe it is true,even if it is'nt and when we are talking about cults or false religions we must give Christianity the same view and that is people don't die for lies,they die for what they believe is true so the Jim Jones cult believed it was true and were willing to die,its the same thing with Jesus's disciples they believe they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and were willing to die and did.It makes Christianity true and false religions false.

You did it again.
Of course people die for lies. Just because they don't think it's a lie, that doesn't mean it isn't a lie.

A hypothetical example... I claim to be a reincarnation of Jesus Christ. And I convince you that the only way God's kingdom will come to you, is if you sacrifice your life in my honor. So let's assume hypothetically, that you believe me, and kill yourself. Then afterwards, we find out that I lied. You died for a lie.

I hope you understand that people can and do die for made up lies all the time.

I died because I believed you was telling me the truth.If you told me you were the son of God and would rise again on the third day after being killed and I watched as you were killed and then I saw you after you rose from the dead I would die to tell people you did indeed rise from the dead,no matter what people said or did.

That's fine. And I don't disagree with that.

I'm disagreeing with your saying that people don't die for made up lies. Because they do. The Jim Jones cult is just one example of a man who lied, and people died.

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

ACB wrote:
I don't believe people die for lies,I believe they are willing to die for what they believe it is true,even if it is'nt and when we are talking about cults or false religions we must give Christianity the same view and that is people don't die for lies,they die for what they believe is true so the Jim Jones cult believed it was true and were willing to die,its the same thing with Jesus's disciples they believe they saw Jesus after he rose from the dead and were willing to die and did.It makes Christianity true and false religions false.

You did it again.
Of course people die for lies. Just because they don't think it's a lie, that doesn't mean it isn't a lie.

A hypothetical example... I claim to be a reincarnation of Jesus Christ. And I convince you that the only way God's kingdom will come to you, is if you sacrifice your life in my honor. So let's assume hypothetically, that you believe me, and kill yourself. Then afterwards, we find out that I lied. You died for a lie.

I hope you understand that people can and do die for made up lies all the time.

I died because I believed you was telling me the truth.If you told me you were the son of God and would rise again on the third day after being killed and I watched as you were killed and then I saw you after you rose from the dead I would die to tell people you did indeed rise from the dead,no matter what people said or did.

That's fine. And I don't disagree with that.

I'm disagreeing with your saying that people don't die for made up lies. Because they do. The Jim Jones cult is just one example of a man who lied, and people died.

Obviously they do die for lies but they do not believe they are lies,they believe it is true and you and I both know that atheists and nonbelievers like to say Christianity is a made up fairy-tale and they use examples from false religions to point out people die for lies,but if you really compare that thinking,then compare them other religions to Christianity you'd have to say the disciples died for a made up fairytale and it doesn't really hold water.

Thanks for helping me make a point but I would like to expound on my point if I could.You see there is not a historical bible scholar alive even Bart Erhman that will deny that the disciples believed they saw Jesus rise from the dead and were willing to die and from this Christianity was birthed,even the most liberal of bible scholars acknowledge this.I was watching TBN last night and it was all about apologetics and they had bible scholars on their and I learned about some things I did not know.

abelcainsbrother wrote:Thanks for helping me make a point but I would like to expound on my point if I could.You see there is not a historical bible scholar alive even Bart Erhman that will deny that the disciples believed they saw Jesus rise from the dead and were willing to die and from this Christianity was birthed,even the most liberal of bible scholars acknowledge this.I was watching TBN last night and it was all about apologetics and they had bible scholars on their and I learned about some things I did not know.

That's a great point ACB. Dying for faith in someone who was raised from the dead, is a lot different than dying for some wacko who claimed to be God, but showed no evidence of his claim.

The important point you are making, is that there were direct witnesses to Jesus' resurrection. And that resurrection is good evidence that what Jesus claimed about himself was true.

****edit
Now let's get back on topic!

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:Thanks for helping me make a point but I would like to expound on my point if I could.You see there is not a historical bible scholar alive even Bart Erhman that will deny that the disciples believed they saw Jesus rise from the dead and were willing to die and from this Christianity was birthed,even the most liberal of bible scholars acknowledge this.I was watching TBN last night and it was all about apologetics and they had bible scholars on their and I learned about some things I did not know.

That's a great point ACB. Dying for faith in someone who was raised from the dead, is a lot different than dying for some wacko who claimed to be God, but showed no evidence of his claim.

The important point you are making, is that there were direct witnesses to Jesus' resurrection. And that resurrection is good evidence that what Jesus claimed about himself was true.

****edit
Now let's get back on topic!

Back on topic let's see I think the west is vulnerable right now and yet so many seem to overlook it.In the east we have Russia and China and Islamic terrorism on the rise with Russia helping Iran build nukes,and yet right now the west is vulnerable and especially Israel with no country in the west that could stop Russia or China if they decided to take over the west,it seems the enemies of Israel are closing in and yet I don't see a way for the west to stop it,right now.

Audie wrote:

B. W. wrote:

Audie wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:The babystep is still an unjustified logical leap, and it is one in you, and in any case, your present aggression is coming from somewhere. Still praying for you, Audie. I hope your day improves.

Science =good, religion =bad is something you made up to attribute to me. How seriously stupid do feel its appropriate to claim someone is?

I dont like you now, I never did. See if you can guess why. "My aggression"? I was not addressing you when you chose to interject your tendentious falsehood. Then you dont even have it in you to take ownership of your own lie.

As for your "prayer"-
Save the smarm for yourself.

Audie, you did say this...

Audie wrote:Science did win the moon, religion did give us 911. What sort of logic does it require to get around that?

And do you not think that this certainly implies Science=good, religion=bad point of view? You did write this, did you not?

How can one logically deduce any other meaning from your own comment?

Can you honestly see that you chose a poor choice of words?
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It clearly implies that which certain persons wish to think it implies.

If you are going to criticize choice or words, perhaps you, in the interest of some sort of balance,should look at someone putting dimwit words in my mouth for me.

Try this:

"Politics gives us campaign signs on lawns".

Please identify where good or bad is clearly implied.

Also, if possible, how this can logically be construed to mean that is a summary comment on politics.

Which part of the quote, "science gave us the moon landing" is not true? Allowing for its a short hand way of speaking, as opposed to some treatise full of definitions.

Which part of "religion gave us 911" is less true than "politics gives us campaign signs"?

You guys are fond of the line "Who'd die for a lie?" when speaking of martyrs.

Our 911 boys presumably went to their death saying something about "allah akhbar"
and counting virgins, not mulling the fine points of US middle eastern policy.
Motivation, and all.

On forums and internet chat's one big problem is that people cannot see the other person and thus body language is left out of communications so people take each other wrongly. We do have emoticons on this forum that help discern what others are saying.

First off, I made a point and shown you from you own words. So why do your own words offend you?

Next, I would like to give you a very important life lesson that can help you in life in dealing with people:

PEOPLE CANNOT READ YOUR MIND and DON"T ASSUME THAT THEY CAN EITHER!!!

No one knows where you are going or what the heck your angle is unless you tell another human being. You criticized and put down Christians for not being truthful etc and etc and etc, well, it cuts both ways. So expect it to be dished out to you just as you dish it out to others.

One thing you need to learn real quick in life is to stop assuming people can read your mind - they can't. If you ever get married or if your already are, knowing this can save your relationship.

Hiding behind your gender in order to play on male ego's will not work on Forums. If you are snarky, then expect others to be snarky to you in return.

Be understanding, and folks will be understanding and descent in return.

I have shown you by using you own words, that it was you who here as there is no other way to take what you mean other than the good - bad issue we are discussing.

You just did so in your response again

What the heck is your point as you are not making any sense?

Politics? Political yard signs?

WHAT????
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Jac makes the ridiculously belittling and false remark that I think
science=good, religion=bad, and naturally its no use to deny it.

What a remarkable structure you managed to concoct from so little.

You did imply that tho....

science gave us the moon, religion gave us 9/11.

moon good

9/11 bad