Evidence for God from Science

All you need to do is look up the words wine, drink, strong drink, drunk and drunken.
These words have a range of meaning, from water, to spiritual drink, to alcohol.
The Bible usually qualifies what is meant by the context, for instance if it was alcoholic drink, it will have associated words like liquor, drunk or drunken, sober, strong drink, wine imbiber, vinegar etc
And the same applies to ordinary non alcoholic wine or "the first pressing" of the grape.

If a person was prophet, or spiritual leader, or King he or she was forbidden to consume alcohol, because, as you will read, it would interfere with their judgement and discernment of the Holy Spirit.

For instance, Daniel (1:16) did not drink the wine of Babylon.
The Levites who presided over the temple service were forbidden to drink intoxicating drink. Leviticus 10:9
Proverbs 31 talks about its use for those who are suffering.
John the Baptist - dd not use intoxicating drink - Luke 1:15.
And of course the New testament warns against getting drunk. E.g, Ephesians 5:18.

If intoxicating wine is somehow recommended in the Bible, then texts like Proverbs 20:1 would contradict that.

And if the mind is the means by which God speaks to us, any intoxication is an insult.
I am very certain that Jesus never allowed alcohol touch His holy lips or mind. Even under the most excruciating mental and physical suffering on the cross, He was rightfully offered an alcoholic pain killer, as the Bible allows, and yet blinded by semi dried blood over His eyes, He did not drink it after tasting what it was. He could afford no risk to His mind which must remain in complete trust to His Father, and right at the end of His life He was able to clearly declare the end, and His commitment of life to the Father.

In the last days, God's people are called a nation of Kings and priests. If the Bible does not recommend alcohol to Kings and priests on earth, how much more vigilant should the servants of the King of heaven be?

RickD wrote:

Starhunter wrote:Rick D,
The Sabbath was instituted and commanded in the garden of Eden, after creation.
All of the faithful to God kept the Sabbath, and always have whenever the knowledge has been retained.

Bible verses to back this up?
"Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur."

Genesis 2: 2,3. to Matthew 28:1, the seventh day has always been the Sabbath of the Bible, the first day has never been called the Sabbath. And God has never changed His law, of which Moses was given a copy and which is mentioned in Revelation the last book of the Bible. "Here are they which keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus."

Starhunter wrote:All you need to do is look up the words wine, drink, strong drink, drunk and drunken.
These words have a range of meaning, from water, to spiritual drink, to alcohol.
The Bible usually qualifies what is meant by the context, for instance if it was alcoholic drink, it will have associated words like liquor, drunk or drunken, sober, strong drink, wine imbiber, vinegar etc
And the same applies to ordinary non alcoholic wine or "the first pressing" of the grape.

If a person was prophet, or spiritual leader, or King he or she was forbidden to consume alcohol, because, as you will read, it would interfere with their judgement and discernment of the Holy Spirit.

For instance, Daniel (1:16) did not drink the wine of Babylon.
The Levites who presided over the temple service were forbidden to drink intoxicating drink. Leviticus 10:9
Proverbs 31 talks about its use for those who are suffering.
John the Baptist - dd not use intoxicating drink - Luke 1:15.
And of course the New testament warns against getting drunk. E.g, Ephesians 5:18.

If intoxicating wine is somehow recommended in the Bible, then texts like Proverbs 20:1 would contradict that.

And if the mind is the means by which God speaks to us, any intoxication is an insult.
I am very certain that Jesus never allowed alcohol touch His holy lips or mind. Even under the most excruciating mental and physical suffering on the cross, He was rightfully offered an alcoholic pain killer, as the Bible allows, and yet blinded by semi dried blood over His eyes, He did not drink it after tasting what it was. He could afford no risk to His mind which must remain in complete trust to His Father, and right at the end of His life He was able to clearly declare the end, and His commitment of life to the Father.

In the last days, God's people are called a nation of Kings and priests. If the Bible does not recommend alcohol to Kings and priests on earth, how much more vigilant should the servants of the King of heaven be?

Wow, I just...talk about reading into scripture what you want...
First off, it is clear that Jesus and His apostles DID drink wine ( the type is irrelevant).
Rules and prohibitions to getting DRUNK do NOT equal prohibitions to actual drinking, if that was the case then celibacy would be biblical because there are rules about fornication, know what I mean?
That John the baptist didn't drink means that he didn't drink and that is all it means.
Daniel did not drink because the wine was an offering to a pagan God.
Only the nazarites were commanded not to drink.

By the very same logic of thinking then any passage that advice's against eating too much or gluttony means that people should not eat.

Luke says it clearly:
Luke 7:33-35

33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35 Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.”

Honestly, I can see what you are trying to do but this is a case of you reading what you WANT into what is clearly not there.

There is no prohibition in the OT or NT against the drinking of wine UNLESS you are part of a specific group ordained by God not to drink OR if, for some reason, God has told you for it to be so.
IN short, it is between the individual and God.

Drunken, however,is prohibited.

Starhunter wrote:

RickD wrote:

Starhunter wrote:Rick D,
The Sabbath was instituted and commanded in the garden of Eden, after creation.
All of the faithful to God kept the Sabbath, and always have whenever the knowledge has been retained.

Bible verses to back this up?
"Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur."

Genesis 2: 2,3. to Matthew 28:1, the seventh day has always been the Sabbath of the Bible, the first day has never been called the Sabbath. And God has never changed His law, of which Moses was given a copy and which is mentioned in Revelation the last book of the Bible. "Here are they which keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus."

The best anyone can do is to keep A Seventh Day rest as no one knows when the actual seventh day rest was due the the changes in passage of time, earth rotation speeds, and calendar from lunar to solar. So just like our birthday as well as Passover falls on a different solar weekday every year so would the original Sabbath.

So for now, God's grace is upon us all... as we are not justified by performing the deeds of the law but by God's grace...


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Starhunter wrote:

RickD wrote:

Starhunter wrote:Rick D,
The Sabbath was instituted and commanded in the garden of Eden, after creation.
All of the faithful to God kept the Sabbath, and always have whenever the knowledge has been retained.

Bible verses to back this up?
"Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur."

Genesis 2: 2,3. to Matthew 28:1, the seventh day has always been the Sabbath of the Bible, the first day has never been called the Sabbath. And God has never changed His law, of which Moses was given a copy and which is mentioned in Revelation the last book of the Bible. "Here are they which keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus."

Well, the commandment, if we are going to be correct about it, states that a person will work for 6 days and rest on the 7th.
It does NOT state WHICH day.
Jewish tradition made it the Saturday, which is fine, but that was by tradition.

Of course, the other issue is that the sabbath was only applicable to Jews and not to gentiles so, unless you can find the EXPLICIT commandment in the NT that ALL are to keep the sabbath then it is strictly a personal choice.

I was going to reply, but you guys took care of it.

Thanks B. W. and PaulS.

RickD wrote:I was going to reply, but you guys took care of it.

Thanks B. W. and PaulS.

As Darwin once said..."Well, I'ze be a monkey's uncle..."

EEkk OOOh Ahwha eek eek -- just lending you legs to learn to walk on

We are all just chimps off the ol'block...aren't we
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I really don't really have a problem with Seventh Day Adventists from what I know about them but I just don't go to church on Saturday.

B. W. wrote: The best anyone can do is to keep A Seventh Day rest as no one knows when the actual seventh day rest was due the the changes in passage of time, earth rotation speeds, and calendar from lunar to solar. So just like our birthday as well as Passover falls on a different solar weekday every year so would the original Sabbath.

So for now, God's grace is upon us all... as we are not justified by performing the deeds of the law but by God's grace...

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God Bless you BW, if the Sabbath is no longer a commandment of God, then what you said is true, and if the Sabbath is valid, then it is God's problem about losing track of the original day. But even if they were, the commandment talks about the seventh day of the week, not the first or sixth, and God would expect one to go with the obvious. At the same time, if God expected the original sequence of the Sabbath to be kept he would never let the world make a mistake about it. And that seems to be the case.

But you can see from the OP that if the Sabbath is an article of importance in the Bible, then Jesus kept it, as did His followers, and we could give them a title of Seventh dayers - apart from anything else.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the OT law.
http://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html

PaulSacramento wrote:
Wow, I just...talk about reading into scripture what you want...
First off, it is clear that Jesus and His apostles DID drink wine ( the type is irrelevant).
Rules and prohibitions to getting DRUNK do NOT equal prohibitions to actual drinking, if that was the case then celibacy would be biblical because there are rules about fornication, know what I mean?
That John the baptist didn't drink means that he didn't drink and that is all it means.
Daniel did not drink because the wine was an offering to a pagan God.
Only the nazarites were commanded not to drink.

By the very same logic of thinking then any passage that advice's against eating too much or gluttony means that people should not eat.

Luke says it clearly:
Luke 7:33-35

33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35 Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.”

Honestly, I can see what you are trying to do but this is a case of you reading what you WANT into what is clearly not there.

There is no prohibition in the OT or NT against the drinking of wine UNLESS you are part of a specific group ordained by God not to drink OR if, for some reason, God has told you for it to be so.
IN short, it is between the individual and God.

Drunken, however,is prohibited.

If alcohol acts like a poison on your body and brain, then it is off limits as far as God is concerned, especially if it interferes with spiritual discernment. But you are welcome to think otherwise, I am not making a judgement, just stating the tenor of the scriptures in regards to health.

The fact is that the SDA's are today the longest living society on earth, compared to other denominations they live an average of 25 to 40 years longer, so I would not be too hasty to dismiss what they propose about the principles of health.
And it is interesting that most SDA's do not follow to the letter what is recommended, which if they did, their life expectancy would be double the average age 100 - 120 years old.

Currently most SDA's don't smoke, drink alcohol, and eat mostly fruit, vegetables, nuts and grains.
They eat regular meals and say grace before eating. Etc

Starhunter wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:
Wow, I just...talk about reading into scripture what you want...
First off, it is clear that Jesus and His apostles DID drink wine ( the type is irrelevant).
Rules and prohibitions to getting DRUNK do NOT equal prohibitions to actual drinking, if that was the case then celibacy would be biblical because there are rules about fornication, know what I mean?
That John the baptist didn't drink means that he didn't drink and that is all it means.
Daniel did not drink because the wine was an offering to a pagan God.
Only the nazarites were commanded not to drink.

By the very same logic of thinking then any passage that advice's against eating too much or gluttony means that people should not eat.

Luke says it clearly:
Luke 7:33-35

33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35 Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.”

Honestly, I can see what you are trying to do but this is a case of you reading what you WANT into what is clearly not there.

There is no prohibition in the OT or NT against the drinking of wine UNLESS you are part of a specific group ordained by God not to drink OR if, for some reason, God has told you for it to be so.
IN short, it is between the individual and God.

Drunken, however,is prohibited.

If alcohol acts like a poison on your body and brain, then it is off limits as far as God is concerned, especially if it interferes with spiritual discernment. But you are welcome to think otherwise, I am not making a judgement, just stating the tenor of the scriptures in regards to health.

The fact is that the SDA's are today the longest living society on earth, compared to other denominations they live an average of 25 to 40 years longer, so I would not be too hasty to dismiss what they propose about the principles of health.
And it is interesting that most SDA's do not follow to the letter what is recommended, which if they did, their life expectancy would be double the average age 100 - 120 years old.

Currently most SDA's don't smoke, drink alcohol, and eat mostly fruit, vegetables, nuts and grains.
They eat regular meals and say grace before eating. Etc

Ok, I'm going to have to ask you for a reference on the life expectancy assertion. I smell major BS. You're saying the AVERAGE life expectancy of SDAs is between 105 and 120.

abelcainsbrother wrote:I really don't really have a problem with Seventh Day Adventists from what I know about them but I just don't go to church on Saturday.

Sure, can you see though that if people in the Bible kept the Sabbath and looked for the return of Christ that they could be named SDA's? By definition of the name itself?

Starhunter wrote: The fact is that the SDA's are today the longest living society on earth, compared to other denominations they live an average of 25 to 40 years longer, so I would not be too hasty to dismiss what they propose about the principles of health.
And it is interesting that most SDA's do not follow to the letter what is recommended, which if they did, their life expectancy would be double the average age 100 - 120 years old.

Currently most SDA's don't smoke, drink alcohol, and eat mostly fruit, vegetables, nuts and grains.
They eat regular meals and say grace before eating. Etc

RickD wrote: Ok, I'm going to have to ask you for a reference on the life expectancy assertion. I smell major BS. You're saying the AVERAGE life expectancy of SDAs is between 105 and 120.

Are you familiar with the factors of longevity for human beings?

If so name the main cause of disease and a short life. If you don't get it right, I won't be posting any more on the subject in this thread,

RickD wrote:Jesus Christ fulfilled the OT law.

By keeping it and not abolishing it. Matthew 5.

"Here are they which KEEP the commandments of God..." Revelation 12.

There is no proof in scripture that the law of God is abolished or made redundant.