Evidence for God from Science

Posted: **Tue May 26, 2015 12:43 pm**

what you and I actually wrote was...

Audie wrote:
I know all of that, but you did not say what the sacrifice or service is?

I wrote, in response to your post just above:

EssentialSacrifice wrote:

Romans 12:1-2 This is probably the best singular verse to explain. It's transforming your life from self center to others centered. You sacrifice your person, in human terms for another's best. Do unto others as you would have them do for you is sacrifice and service providing sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love. The very definition of God's love, the very apparent and outwardly demonstrative death of Jesus, one Man's death for all, so all should die to self and love one another as He does, and taught for us.

Audie then wrote:
For many, the transformation from self to other- centerdness occurs when they first hold a new baby.
Its a maturity and wisdom thing too.

In my culture we, women particularly, are taught this from birth. Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go to church, get saved and utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it at all.

My response to this was this:

ES wrote:
Ok, but what does that have to do with my culture that does not (from birth) and still, through wisdom and maturity, not ions of cultural teaching, adheres to personal sacrifice for their God ?... you have the training but not the will. You learned to serve others at command, we serve others by desire, will, even though, if commanded by God, you do not have to obey. Your free will allows for any response you wish... was that taught in Asian cultures over the millennia ?

My initial response to yours was simply we are coming from two different cultures. Asian POV and Christian POV are similar but, as I pointed out, have obvious differences. This is not making things up Audie, it is simply illustrating the differences. You asked "you never said what the sacrifice and service is" and I responded with my post. You brought in the Asian culture thing after that for comparison and therefore a made it a point of response.

Then Audie wrote:

Try this...I said:

Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go to church, get saved and utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it at all.

you turned it into this:

The point being, we can choose and your thoughts of "westerners have to go to church to get saved" is incorrect, an undisciplined and incorrect learning.... It's just the truth Audie, not a put down..

You are the one who quoted all of this incorrectly for the case of your "you're making fun of me"... all of which is untrue... embarrassingly so....

In the dept of undisciplined and incorrect, what I said, and what you claim I said are not remotely the same thing.

Do you see the difference? Why did you change it?

I must assume Audie this question you ask is directly asked of yourself. What we originally wrote and what you claim in later post is completely false. You are the one who, in the department of undisciplined and incorrect need to be more honest with our original conversation. what I said, and what you claim I said are not remotely the same thing

Do you see the difference ? Why did you change it ? Why do you accuse me of the very falsehoods you perpetuate ? Aren't you just dead tired of this ? You can't have your way so you make things up in the posted conversations ...

. Enough of this, your point is moot and over.

Posted: **Tue May 26, 2015 1:02 pm**

Audie wrote:
1over137 wrote:May I ask that question then, Audie?
Sure. I dont actually have a good answer, not even to myself.
Id tell you if I did.

When you know, I am all ears.

Posted: **Tue May 26, 2015 5:52 pm**

1over137 wrote:
Audie wrote:
1over137 wrote:May I ask that question then, Audie?
Sure. I dont actually have a good answer, not even to myself.
Id tell you if I did.
When you know, I am all ears.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 expresses part of it.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 4:40 am**

Audie wrote:
1over137 wrote:
Audie wrote:
1over137 wrote:May I ask that question then, Audie?
Sure. I dont actually have a good answer, not even to myself.
Id tell you if I did.
When you know, I am all ears.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 expresses part of it.

There`s hope for you yet then

x

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 6:48 am**

EssentialSacrifice wrote:what you and I actually wrote was...
Audie wrote:
I know all of that, but you did not say what the sacrifice or service is?
I wrote, in response to your post just above:
EssentialSacrifice wrote:

Romans 12:1-2 This is probably the best singular verse to explain. It's transforming your life from self center to others centered. You sacrifice your person, in human terms for another's best. Do unto others as you would have them do for you is sacrifice and service providing sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love. The very definition of God's love, the very apparent and outwardly demonstrative death of Jesus, one Man's death for all, so all should die to self and love one another as He does, and taught for us.

Audie then wrote:
For many, the transformation from self to other- centerdness occurs when they first hold a new baby.
Its a maturity and wisdom thing too.

In my culture we, women particularly, are taught this from birth. Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go to church, get saved and utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it at all.
My response to this was this:

ES wrote:
Ok, but what does that have to do with my culture that does not (from birth) and still, through wisdom and maturity, not ions of cultural teaching, adheres to personal sacrifice for their God ?... you have the training but not the will. You learned to serve others at command, we serve others by desire, will, even though, if commanded by God, you do not have to obey. Your free will allows for any response you wish... was that taught in Asian cultures over the millennia ?
My initial response to yours was simply we are coming from two different cultures. Asian POV and Christian POV are similar but, as I pointed out, have obvious differences. This is not making things up Audie, it is simply illustrating the differences. You asked "you never said what the sacrifice and service is" and I responded with my post. You brought in the Asian culture thing after that for comparison and therefore a made it a point of response.

Then Audie wrote:
Try this...I said:

Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go to church, get saved and utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it at all.

you turned it into this:

The point being, we can choose and your thoughts of "westerners have to go to church to get saved" is incorrect, an undisciplined and incorrect learning.... It's just the truth Audie, not a put down..
You are the one who quoted all of this incorrectly for the case of your "you're making fun of me"... all of which is untrue... embarrassingly so....

In the dept of undisciplined and incorrect, what I said, and what you claim I said are not remotely the same thing.

Do you see the difference? Why did you change it?
I must assume Audie this question you ask is directly asked of yourself. What we originally wrote and what you claim in later post is completely false. You are the one who, in the department of undisciplined and incorrect need to be more honest with our original conversation. what I said, and what you claim I said are not remotely the same thing

Do you see the difference ? Why did you change it ? Why do you accuse me of the very falsehoods you perpetuate ? Aren't you just dead tired of this ? You can't have your way so you make things up in the posted conversations ... . Enough of this, your point is moot and over.

Well that is quite a tangle of pretense and denial.

But in simple black and white...

Audie:

Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go to church, get saved and utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it* at all.

Then your concocted version...

Essential S:

The point being, we can choose and your thoughts of "westerners have to go to church to get saved" is incorrect, an undisciplined and incorrect learning.... It's just the truth Audie, not a put down..

You changed the wording, and changed the meaning. Then put it in quotation marks!

I will quote you now, ( correctly) "You are the one who, in the department of undisciplined and incorrect need to be more honest with our original conversation"

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 6:51 am**

Storyteller wrote:
Audie wrote:
1over137 wrote:
Audie wrote:
1over137 wrote:May I ask that question then, Audie?
Sure. I dont actually have a good answer, not even to myself.
Id tell you if I did.
When you know, I am all ears.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 expresses part of it.

There`s hope for you yet then x

I never was one to just accept and believe things "on authority".

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 8:23 am**

Audie's original post... please note day and time...

Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?
Postby Audie » Mon May 25, 2015 3:06 pm

EssentialSacrifice wrote:

Romans 12:1-2 This is probably the best singular verse to explain. It's transforming your life from self center to others centered. You sacrifice your person, in human terms for another's best. Do unto others as you would have them do for you is sacrifice and service providing sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love. The very definition of God's love, the very apparent and outwardly demonstrative death of Jesus, one Man's death for all, so all should die to self and love one another as He does, and taught for us.

For many, the transformation from self to other- centerdness occurs when they first hold a new baby.
Its a maturity and wisdom thing too.

In my culture we, women particularly, are taught this from birth. Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go to church, get saved and utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it at all.
Audie

ES's original reply,(one line at a time) note date and time... ES remarks in quotes...Audies not...

Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?
Postby EssentialSacrifice » Mon May 25, 2015 9:10 pm

For many, the transformation from self to other- centerdness occurs when they first hold a new baby.

What's your point m? It's obviously not the same thing as Christian sacrifice. Similar only in the love you feel ? Certainly you do not hold a baby for the first time for reasons of personal sacrifice.... you're in the game but not the right ballpark.

Its a maturity and wisdom thing too.

Correct, except I'm talking in a Christian maturity and wisdom vain and this attempt of yours is ... more universal in scope ?... You understand the point of sacrifice but miss the Christian aim. Christianity realizes the wisdom of the sacrifice of self for others too.

In my culture we, women particularly, are taught this from birth. Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing.

Ok, but what does that have to do with my culture that does not (from birth) and still, through wisdom and maturity, not ions of cultural teaching, adheres to personal sacrifice for their God ?... you have the training but not the will. You learned to serve others at command, we serve others by desire, will, even though, if commanded by God, you do not have to obey. Your free will allows for any response you wish... was that taught in Asian cultures over the millennia ?

If westerners have to go to church, get saved

They do not. This is some preconceived notion of yours, inherent with your undisciplined and incorrect learning of the Christian faith.

and utter strange chants like "sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love"

One person's canticle is another person's "strange"chant ... rather egocentric of you though, eh?

well better than not getting it at all.

This is your path, and, your chosen one at that, for now. I hope better for you in time.

Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

Audie, all you had to do was go back and read what you said and when... you are the one who says I made things up about you and I'm truly sick and tired of it... Here, for the last time is your proof...

Audie wrote:
You changed the wording, and changed the meaning. Then put it in quotation marks!

I did no such thing... the quotes around the westerner thing (in another post all together) was so you could see where you made the mistake... we do not .... reiterate... do not have to go to church to be saved... that's all I was saying... but that issue was just one of many you dispute... You should remember all this as my post was the last before your " I"m not a Christian, never will be ...etc..etc...etc... rant"

WoW woman, enough already. If you won't go back to reread what and when you said something, you have no right in arguing the point.. holy smokes your infuriating. I have absolutely no intention of continuing this discussion as you're unable to hold it with honesty as intention. Simply remarkable ! You intentionally look for the "they say things about me" and if not there... you rewrite history to suit your angst...

I can't continue this... it is so anti Christian in scope that I need to go to confession just because of a conversation with you... so much for friends...

stay away ...and I will too... it will be best for us both. God's Mercy Audie.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 9:10 am**

EssentialSacrifice wrote:Audie's original post... please note day and time...

Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?
Postby Audie » Mon May 25, 2015 3:06 pm

EssentialSacrifice wrote:

Romans 12:1-2 This is probably the best singular verse to explain. It's transforming your life from self center to others centered. You sacrifice your person, in human terms for another's best. Do unto others as you would have them do for you is sacrifice and service providing sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love. The very definition of God's love, the very apparent and outwardly demonstrative death of Jesus, one Man's death for all, so all should die to self and love one another as He does, and taught for us.

For many, the transformation from self to other- centerdness occurs when they first hold a new baby.
Its a maturity and wisdom thing too.

In my culture we, women particularly, are taught this from birth. Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go to church, get saved and utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it at all.
Audie

ES's original reply,(one line at a time) note date and time... ES remarks in quotes...Audies not...

Re: what does it mean to be a Christian?
Postby EssentialSacrifice » Mon May 25, 2015 9:10 pm

For many, the transformation from self to other- centerdness occurs when they first hold a new baby.

What's your point m? It's obviously not the same thing as Christian sacrifice. Similar only in the love you feel ? Certainly you do not hold a baby for the first time for reasons of personal sacrifice.... you're in the game but not the right ballpark.
Its a maturity and wisdom thing too.

Correct, except I'm talking in a Christian maturity and wisdom vain and this attempt of yours is ... more universal in scope ?... You understand the point of sacrifice but miss the Christian aim. Christianity realizes the wisdom of the sacrifice of self for others too.
In my culture we, women particularly, are taught this from birth. Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing.

Ok, but what does that have to do with my culture that does not (from birth) and still, through wisdom and maturity, not ions of cultural teaching, adheres to personal sacrifice for their God ?... you have the training but not the will. You learned to serve others at command, we serve others by desire, will, even though, if commanded by God, you do not have to obey. Your free will allows for any response you wish... was that taught in Asian cultures over the millennia ?
If westerners have to go to church, get saved

They do not. This is some preconceived notion of yours, inherent with your undisciplined and incorrect learning of the Christian faith.
and utter strange chants like "sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love"

One person's canticle is another person's "strange"chant ... rather egocentric of you though, eh?
well better than not getting it at all.

This is your path, and, your chosen one at that, for now. I hope better for you in time.
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

Audie, all you had to do was go back and read what you said and when... you are the one who says I made things up about you and I'm truly sick and tired of it... Here, for the last time is your proof...

Audie wrote:
You changed the wording, and changed the meaning. Then put it in quotation marks!
I did no such thing... the quotes around the westerner thing (in another post all together) was so you could see where you made the mistake... we do not .... reiterate... do not have to go to church to be saved... that's all I was saying... but that issue was just one of many you dispute... You should remember all this as my post was the last before your " I"m not a Christian, never will be ...etc..etc...etc... rant"

WoW woman, enough already. If you won't go back to reread what and when you said something, you have no right in arguing the point.. holy smokes your infuriating. I have absolutely no intention of continuing this discussion as you're unable to hold it with honesty as intention. Simply remarkable ! You intentionally look for the "they say things about me" and if not there... you rewrite history to suit your angst... I can't continue this... it is so anti Christian in scope that I need to go to confession just because of a conversation with you... so much for friends... stay away ...and I will too... it will be best for us both. God's Mercy Audie.

Regarding in bold

Right there in black and white, anyone on gods green earth can see you changed it, both the words and the meaning.

Audie wrote:
You changed the wording, and changed the meaning. Then put it in quotation marks!

ES:
I did no such thing...

Deny it, while its right in front of you, and then accuse me of being dishonest.

Do we have a moderator here who can stand up and comment on changing someone's words to a new meaning?

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 9:43 am**

I am so lost in this back n forth tirade....

Accusing someone of changing someone else post is a big thing here, people will get banned for that.
Audie,
Can you please show me where ES changed the wording of your post ?

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 10:49 am**

PaulSacramento wrote:I am so lost in this back n forth tirade....

Accusing someone of changing someone else post is a big thing here, people will get banned for that.
Audie,
Can you please show me where ES changed the wording of your post ?

I think Audie is saying that ES said Audie meant one thing, when she actually meant something different.

Only we wise and powerful mods can actually change the wording of someone's post.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 10:58 am**

PaulSacramento wrote:I am so lost in this back n forth tirade....

Accusing someone of changing someone else post is a big thing here, people will get banned for that.
Audie,
Can you please show me where ES changed the wording of your post ?

Audie:

Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go to church, get saved and utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it* at all.

Essential S:

The point being, we can choose and your thoughts of "westerners have to go to church to get saved" is incorrect, an undisciplined and incorrect learning.... It's just the truth Audie, not a put down..

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 11:02 am**

Audie wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:I am so lost in this back n forth tirade....

Accusing someone of changing someone else post is a big thing here, people will get banned for that.
Audie,
Can you please show me where ES changed the wording of your post ?
Audie:

Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go to church, get saved and utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it* at all.

Essential S:

The point being, we can choose and your thoughts of "westerners have to go to church to get saved" is incorrect, an undisciplined and incorrect learning.... It's just the truth Audie, not a put down..

What were the words that were changed?

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 11:05 am**

RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:I am so lost in this back n forth tirade....

Accusing someone of changing someone else post is a big thing here, people will get banned for that.
Audie,
Can you please show me where ES changed the wording of your post ?
I think Audie is saying that ES said Audie meant one thing, when she actually meant something different.

Only we wise and powerful mods can actually change the wording of someone's post.

That is half of it.
ES deleted a comma, and put in "to". That is changing the wording.

On a contract, that can be very big time trouble.

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 11:09 am**

PaulSacramento wrote:
Audie wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:I am so lost in this back n forth tirade....

Accusing someone of changing someone else post is a big thing here, people will get banned for that.
Audie,
Can you please show me where ES changed the wording of your post ?
Audie:

Self sacrifice in the service of others.
Its an Asian cultures thing. If westerners have to go church, get saved and [/b]utter strange chants like
"sublime intention on the sacrificial alter of brotherly love", well,
better than not getting it at all.

Essential S:

The point being, we can choose and your thoughts of "westerners have to go to church to get saved" is incorrect, an undisciplined and incorrect learning.... It's just the truth Audie, not a put down..
What were the words that were changed?

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2015 11:13 am**

Audie wrote:
RickD wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:I am so lost in this back n forth tirade....

Accusing someone of changing someone else post is a big thing here, people will get banned for that.
Audie,
Can you please show me where ES changed the wording of your post ?
I think Audie is saying that ES said Audie meant one thing, when she actually meant something different.

Only we wise and powerful mods can actually change the wording of someone's post.

That is half of it.
ES deleted a comma, and put in "to". That is changing the wording.

On a contract, that can be very big time trouble.

Wouldn't the easiest and least painful thing to do, be to just say that you didn't say what he thought you meant, and politely correct the error? We misread each other all the time here. It's not really a big deal.