Evidence for God from Science

My mums uncle was a freemason.. Found a freemason bible once. We destroyed it. Im not sure you can be a freemason and a christian...

People are free to believe what they want about Masonry, but I can assure you it's a perfectly fine organization. But to each his own

Ecclesiastes12 wrote:People are free to believe what they want about Masonry, but I can assure you it's a perfectly fine organization. But to each his own

Hey,

As long as you assure me that Freemasonry is ok, that's good enough for me.

E12: People are free to believe what they want about Masonry, but I can assure you it's a perfectly fine organization. But to each his own.

So, E12, is the info in Rick's link false, or not?

Ecclesiastes12 wrote:People are free to believe what they want about Masonry, but I can assure you it's a perfectly fine organization. But to each his own

We will just forget about that little matter of the deity of jesus being denied

https://www.jashow.org/articles/masonry ... out-jesus/

Ecclesiastes12 wrote: One person does not speak for all of Freemasonry. It wouldn't be fair if I said, "I just read that Pope Francis is the earthly representative of Christ, so all Christians believe that." (Although if you're Catholic, you might just agree with the statement. ) Anyway, just because one Mason believes something (no matter how prestigious they might be), not all Masons believe that way.

Agree one person doesn't speak for all, which is why it's interesting seeing your interactions with Freemasonry. I know it's members are mainly Christian in the U.S. (right?), but I was surprised (and a little disappointed) to find your lodge is all Christian as I'm interested in the interfaith interactions.

Ecclesiastes12 wrote:An example is the state of Freemasonry in continental Europe. If you want to be a Mason in France, you need not profess a belief in a creator. They changed the requirements so that atheists can be Masons. However, that form of Freemasonry is considered illegitimate in the eyes of American Freemasonry. They cannot visit our lodges, nor can we visit theirs. So if a French Mason started talking about Masonry, he'd have no standing to comment on what we do in the US.

Interesting, so there is a split (likened to Catholic and Protestant and denominations). Of course France would be like that..

Ecclesiastes12 wrote:That being said, I think that quote refers to the fact that you must have a religious belief to be a Mason but you don't need to have a specific religious belief. All I can tell you is that in many of our degrees, we emphasize that your religious belief is something that Masonry will not determine for you. Masonry doesn't say that all religions are paths to salvation because it simply refuses to make that call for its members. You can choose not to trust me on that, but I'm speaking from experience as someone who has participated in pretty much all aspects of Freemasonry with the exception of the Shriners.

I'm trying to figure out how to better explain myself. I agree and disagree with what you say. I don't have a problem with you being a Mason and a Christian. And when I wonder if the two are compatible, I'm viewing it the same way I'd view anything of this world. For example, I don't view being a Republican or a Democrat to be acceptable allegiances if one is following Christ. I think there is something intrinsically evil with defining oneself outside of Jesus. And it seems at least in your current state, you being a Mason is like you being a Knight Templar and those two things might even process from your Christianity. For me the difference is the person (you) vs the belief (Freemasonry vs Christianity in this instance). So, it's not that I don't trust you about what you say Masonry says or not. It's what Masonry says and stands for outside a persons involvement. Same thing goes with every human institution.

I agree with Mallz, and dare say many of us here don't care who you affiliate with. Rather, we more care what you'd believe personally, and for me I wonder if there's not some naivety on your part that Masonry can lead people astray or perpetuate one's being lost to Christ.

Sadly, there are many religious organisations out there, some we that are right called "cults" which distort foundational truths Christians ought to hold dearly. Furthermore, I'd have reservations over anyone who places their faith in any particular organisation, church or group as part of their being saved.

For example, the RCC (as well as Protestant churches), but I see many lay Catholics fall into the trap of believing they're saved by being a part of the church. Such that they see their salvation as intimately attached to something man-instituted, rather than directly Christ Himself. One isn't saved/not saved by the church or organisation they associate with, nor do we need a mediator of some sort like such to usurp Christ Himself who is available directly to all who believe no matter their association.

I have a question for those involved in masonry. I used to do air conditioning work and we had to go up in attics alot. Well oneday we went up into the attic of an old historic house and the attic,it was one of them big attics where you would'nt have to squat and your head not hit the roof,you could stand up and it was a big attic that had been transformed into a room.Along the wall there was a book shelf with a bunch of masonry books but in this attic were contraptions of what looked like something having to do with rituals.It had a structure attached to the roof of what looked like a ritualistic contraption.I don't know what it was but I could tell it had something to do with a place for masons to gather and do some kind of rituals. Do any of you masons know what this ritualistic stuff is used for?

abelcainsbrother wrote:I have a question for those involved in masonry. I used to do air conditioning work and we had to go up in attics alot. Well oneday we went up into the attic of an old historic house and the attic,it was one of them big attics where you would'nt have to squat and your head not hit the roof,you could stand up and it was a big attic that had been transformed into a room.Along the wall there was a book shelf with a bunch of masonry books but in this attic were contraptions of what looked like something having to do with rituals.It had a structure attached to the roof of what looked like a ritualistic contraption.I don't know what it was but I could tell it had something to do with a place for masons to gather and do some kind of rituals. Do any of you masons know what this ritualistic stuff is used for?

Virgin sacrifice.

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:I have a question for those involved in masonry. I used to do air conditioning work and we had to go up in attics alot. Well oneday we went up into the attic of an old historic house and the attic,it was one of them big attics where you would'nt have to squat and your head not hit the roof,you could stand up and it was a big attic that had been transformed into a room.Along the wall there was a book shelf with a bunch of masonry books but in this attic were contraptions of what looked like something having to do with rituals.It had a structure attached to the roof of what looked like a ritualistic contraption.I don't know what it was but I could tell it had something to do with a place for masons to gather and do some kind of rituals. Do any of you masons know what this ritualistic stuff is used for?

Virgin sacrifice.

So ACB then








Just kidding ACB, love ya man.

Sorry for the late response. Life had me busy!

@abelcainsbrother - We don't use contraptions in our degrees, so I'm not sure what you found. We definitely don't meet in low attics like that, so I'm guessing that what you found is completely unrelated to Masonry. Can you describe it a little more? I know it has nothing to do with Masonry, but I'm curious at this point.

@Mallz - I see what you're saying. An overattachment to labels and groups can take someone away from Jesus for sure! However, I don't think it's a bad thing as long as it's not your primary identity. I might be a Mason, an American, a lawyer, etc but first and foremost, I'm a Christian.

@Nessa - The link you have provided is based on the claims of Jim Shaw, a fabricator. He claims to have been a 33rd degree Mason, but the list of 33rd degree Masons is public and he's not on it. He wrote his book, The Deadly Deception, in 1988... back when it was much harder to verify this kind of information. Now that we have the Internet, it's far easier to find this stuff out. He apparently was a Mason at some point, but left the organization. He was never a master of a lodge or a 33rd degree Mason. I'm guessing he made up those facts as to promote his book sales by lending himself more credibility. In any event, I'd rather trust my own experiences than the word of a proven fabricator like Jim Shaw. More info on the wonderful Mr. Shaw: http://www.masonicinfo.com/shaw.htm

@Phillip - Masonry's official stance is that your religious beliefs are left to your own conscience to decide. If you think this constitutes a denial of Jesus, then there you go. Personally, I don't. I mean, everything else in my life except church takes that position. Except maybe Chick-Fil-A, haha.

What happens to Christians who join Masons?

Answer: They become a Jar....
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What happens to Christians who join Masons?

Answer: They become a Jar....

Uh, no further need to contemplate a comedy career.

B. W. wrote:What happens to Christians who join Masons?

Answer: They become a Jar....
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I would say they become a brick.