Rob Bell AFTER Hell

[Nessa]

If death (for a non Christian) is just having the lights eternally turned out then to me that doesnt seem like much of a punishment.

it is a just punishment, because God resurrects them, shows them everything they will never have, and then takes away their life in fire. God is a just God, not a cruel and unusual punishment God.

But that is assuming everyone would care, isnt it?

[jenna]

If death (for a non Christian) is just having the lights eternally turned out then to me that doesnt seem like much of a punishment.

it is a just punishment, because God resurrects them, shows them everything they will never have, and then takes away their life in fire. God is a just God, not a cruel and unusual punishment God.

But that is assuming everyone would care, isnt it?

maybe some wont, but since the bible says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, it is obvious most will. and good morning!

[Nessa]

If death (for a non Christian) is just havinga the lights eternally turned out then to me that doesnt seem like much of a punishment.

it is a just punishment, because God resurrects them, shows them everything they will never have, and then takes away their life in fire. God is a just God, not a cruel and unusual punishment God.

But that is assuming everyone would care, isnt it?

maybe some wont, but since the bible says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, it is obvious most will. and good morning!

I hope its not moring cos I have a glass of wine infront of me

Actually its 11:38pm friday night.

I have always believed in the traditonal version of hell but I'm open to other interpretations

[jenna]

If death (for a non Christian) is just havinga the lights eternally turned out then to me that doesnt seem like much of a punishment.

it is a just punishment, because God resurrects them, shows them everything they will never have, and then takes away their life in fire. God is a just God, not a cruel and unusual punishment God.

But that is assuming everyone would care, isnt it?

maybe some wont, but since the bible says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, it is obvious most will. and good morning!

I hope its not moring cos I have a glass of wine infront of me

Actually its 11:38pm friday night.

I have always believed in the traditonal version of hell but I'm open to other interpretations

haha, here it is nearly 6 am. as far as the wine, well its always 5 oclock somewhere.

[Nessa]

it is a just punishment, because God resurrects them, shows them everything they will never have, and then takes away their life in fire. God is a just God, not a cruel and unusual punishment God.

But that is assuming everyone would care, isnt it?

maybe some wont, but since the bible says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, it is obvious most will. and good morning!

I hope its not moring cos I have a glass of wine infront of me

Actually its 11:38pm friday night.

I have always believed in the traditonal version of hell but I'm open to other interpretations

haha, here it is nearly 6 am. as far as the wine, well its always 5 oclock somewhere.

Are you a morning person?

[jenna]

But that is assuming everyone would care, isnt it?

maybe some wont, but since the bible says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, it is obvious most will. and good morning!

I hope its not moring cos I have a glass of wine infront of me

Actually its 11:38pm friday night.

I have always believed in the traditonal version of hell but I'm open to other interpretations

haha, here it is nearly 6 am. as far as the wine, well its always 5 oclock somewhere.

Are you a morning person?

if you mean do i get up early, then yes. but i usually take me an afternoon nap.

[Nessa]

maybe some wont, but since the bible says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, it is obvious most will. and good morning!

I hope its not moring cos I have a glass of wine infront of me

Actually its 11:38pm friday night.

I have always believed in the traditonal version of hell but I'm open to other interpretations

haha, here it is nearly 6 am. as far as the wine, well its always 5 oclock somewhere.

Are you a morning person?

if you mean do i get up early, then yes. but i usually take me an afternoon nap.

I wake early, but fail on the getting up . Tho viritually, in cyberspace, im 'up'at 3am at times..


(darn ph )

[jenna]

I hope its not moring cos I have a glass of wine infront of me

Actually its 11:38pm friday night.

I have always believed in the traditonal version of hell but I'm open to other interpretations

haha, here it is nearly 6 am. as far as the wine, well its always 5 oclock somewhere.

Are you a morning person?

if you mean do i get up early, then yes. but i usually take me an afternoon nap.

I wake early, but fail on the getting up . Tho viritually, in cyberspace, im 'up'at 3am at times..


(darn ph )

[RickD]

jenna wrote:
...the other problem is that eternal life is the reward for the saved, while eternal death is the punishment...

Where in the Bible is eternal life considered a reward?

um, John 3:16 is a start...

It's not a reward. It's an unmerited gift.

You do understand the difference, don't you?

yes i understand the difference, and perhaps you are right on this one. but be that as it may, the girt is not the main subject here, but rather the punishment

The girt?

A girt is a horizontal structural member in a framed wall. What does a girt have to do with anything? Are you trying to bring the fact that Jesus was a carpenter, into the conversation?

[jenna]

Where in the Bible is eternal life considered a reward?

um, John 3:16 is a start...

It's not a reward. It's an unmerited gift.

You do understand the difference, don't you?

yes i understand the difference, and perhaps you are right on this one. but be that as it may, the girt is not the main subject here, but rather the punishment

The girt?

A girt is a horizontal structural member in a framed wall. What does a girt have to do with anything? Are you trying to bring the fact that Jesus was a carpenter, into the conversation?

well that is certainly one way to derail the thread i suppose. other than Nessa and i talking about wine and naps, lol.

[theophilus]

the punishment you describe here still does not fit with what the bible says. The bible says DEATH is the punishment, not eternal burning in hell or eternal darkness.

But there is more than one kind of death. All of us will experience physical death unless we are still alive when the rapture takes place. But there is another kind of death waiting for those who are unsaved.

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:11-15 ESV)

Earlier the beast and the false prophet had been thrown into the lake of fire.

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
(Revelation 19:20 ESV)

Here is what happened to them there.

The devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(Revelation 20:10 ESV)

Physical death means that the body stops functioning. Eternal death in the lake of fire is neverending suffering.

[B. W.]

Page two and page three from this old 2007 thread:

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 8&start=15

And to Pierac. I think you have said it all, on the subject of "hell". I also believe that the dead stay dead until the resurrection. I also do not believe that "hellfire" is eternal, nor that sinners will burn forever in the lake of fire.

Jenna, can you refresh my memory do you still hold to you above stated position on the afterlife?

I cannot recall where we at with this over the years you have posted here.

Also Jac's response on page three of that old 2007 thread is fitting to re-post here...for you...

Jen,

To answer the original question, may I suggest that:

1. Hell (Sheol/Hades) is a temporary place of the dead. No one will spend eternity there. Today, when an unrighteous person dies, they immediately go there to await the Great White Throne Judgment;

2. The GWTJ comes at the end of the Millennial Reign (see Rev 20:11ff), at which time, the unrighteous are resurrected and cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna).

3. Today, when a born again believer dies, he immediately goes to be with Jesus in paradise (which is now in Heaven), where he waits to be resurrected at the beginning of the Millennial Reign. The order of the Resurrection of the Righteous is: 1) Christ, 2) OT Saints, 3) Those dead "in Christ"; 4) those living at the time of the Rapture (or Second Coming, depending on your school of thought).

In all cases, both heaven and hell are temporary places that the dead wait until their respective resurrections. The righteous dead will be resurrected to live eternally with Christ on the New Earth. The unrighteous dead will be resurrected to be cast into the Lake of Fire. And, for the record, I believe that those who will suffer in the Lake of Fire will do so forever.

God bless

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[jenna]

Page two and page three from this old 2007 thread:

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 8&start=15

And to Pierac. I think you have said it all, on the subject of "hell". I also believe that the dead stay dead until the resurrection. I also do not believe that "hellfire" is eternal, nor that sinners will burn forever in the lake of fire.

Jenna, can you refresh my memory do you still hold to you above stated position on the afterlife?

I cannot recall where we at with this over the years you have posted here.

Also Jac's response on page three of that old 2007 thread is fitting to re-post here...for you...

Jen,

To answer the original question, may I suggest that:

1. Hell (Sheol/Hades) is a temporary place of the dead. No one will spend eternity there. Today, when an unrighteous person dies, they immediately go there to await the Great White Throne Judgment;

2. The GWTJ comes at the end of the Millennial Reign (see Rev 20:11ff), at which time, the unrighteous are resurrected and cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna).

3. Today, when a born again believer dies, he immediately goes to be with Jesus in paradise (which is now in Heaven), where he waits to be resurrected at the beginning of the Millennial Reign. The order of the Resurrection of the Righteous is: 1) Christ, 2) OT Saints, 3) Those dead "in Christ"; 4) those living at the time of the Rapture (or Second Coming, depending on your school of thought).

In all cases, both heaven and hell are temporary places that the dead wait until their respective resurrections. The righteous dead will be resurrected to live eternally with Christ on the New Earth. The unrighteous dead will be resurrected to be cast into the Lake of Fire. And, for the record, I believe that those who will suffer in the Lake of Fire will do so forever.

God bless

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yes i still hold to the same belief. I was wondering how long it would take for you to come around. good to see you again. and i do not agree with Jac, as in when a person dies, they are dead. thats it, until they are resurrected. they dont go immediately anywhere. if they did, then there would be no need whatsoever for a resurrection.

[jenna]

the punishment you describe here still does not fit with what the bible says. The bible says DEATH is the punishment, not eternal burning in hell or eternal darkness.

But there is more than one kind of death. All of us will experience physical death unless we are still alive when the rapture takes place. But there is another kind of death waiting for those who are unsaved.

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:11-15 ESV)

Earlier the beast and the false prophet had been thrown into the lake of fire.

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
(Revelation 19:20 ESV)

Here is what happened to them there.

The devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(Revelation 20:10 ESV)

Physical death means that the body stops functioning. Eternal death in the lake of fire is neverending suffering.

there is a problem with this however. the bible tells us that the dead "know not anything" Ecc 9:5 . tell me, what would be the point of eternal torment if they dont even know they are suffering?

[B. W.]

yes i still hold to the same belief. I was wondering how long it would take for you to come around. good to see you again. and i do not agree with Jac, as in when a person dies, they are dead. thats it, until they are resurrected. they dont go immediately anywhere. if they did, then there would be no need whatsoever for a resurrection.

Thank you Jenna for clarifying that as I know time can change points of view.

Nice to hear from you again as it has be awhile!

What specifically from Jac's post do you not agree with?
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