Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:I suppose, but still, doesn't she have a point? College has become a requirement for getting a decent job, but the job market isn't what it used to be and tuition has gone through the roof. That means that a lot of American kids are college educated, deeply in debt, and stuck living with their parents and working 2-3 low-paying jobs to cover their student loans. Is it unreasonable for her to want the same opportunities and security that were available to her parents and grandparents? And is it unreasonable for her to expect the grow-ups to figure out how to provide it?

Ed,

What I'm talking about is her idea that the richest 1% should pay for other peoples' college debt.

You make a choice to spend tens of thousands of dollars, with no guarantee that you'll get any job from it, then go in debt, and just expect others to bail you out? What kind of mindset is that? It's ridiculous.

Make the rich oppressors pay for our bad choices. Nobody forced them to go into debt. Nobody held a gun to their heads, and made them go to college.

Make stupid, irresponsible decisions, and you need to deal with the consequences.

I have a degree in Business, mechanical engineering and just recently a Masters in Theological studies.
Know how much debt came with that?
ZERO.
I paid for it all out of my own pocket by working full time when I had to, part-time when I needed to and NOT leaving home and spending all my money to stay on campus so I can party.

Let's not [nonsense] people.

I worked full time for 2 years to save up money to go to university and then worked every summer to keep paying fo rit and I was NOT alone.
At times I worked full time and went to school part-time.
You can always find away to do it without being in debt up to your ears.

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:I suppose, but still, doesn't she have a point? College has become a requirement for getting a decent job, but the job market isn't what it used to be and tuition has gone through the roof. That means that a lot of American kids are college educated, deeply in debt, and stuck living with their parents and working 2-3 low-paying jobs to cover their student loans. Is it unreasonable for her to want the same opportunities and security that were available to her parents and grandparents? And is it unreasonable for her to expect the grow-ups to figure out how to provide it?

Ed,

What I'm talking about is her idea that the richest 1% should pay for other peoples' college debt.

You make a choice to spend tens of thousands of dollars, with no guarantee that you'll get any job from it, then go in debt, and just expect others to bail you out? What kind of mindset is that? It's ridiculous.

Make the rich oppressors pay for our bad choices. Nobody forced them to go into debt. Nobody held a gun to their heads, and made them go to college.

Make stupid, irresponsible decisions, and you need to deal with the consequences.

I have a degree in Business, mechanical engineering and just recently a Masters in Theological studies.
Know how much debt came with that?
ZERO.
I paid for it all out of my own pocket by working full time when I had to, part-time when I needed to and NOT leaving home and spending all my money to stay on campus so I can party.

Let's not [nonsense] people.

I worked full time for 2 years to save up money to go to university and then worked every summer to keep paying fo rit and I was NOT alone.
At times I worked full time and went to school part-time.
You can always find away to do it without being in debt up to your ears.

Well Paul,

That was pretty stupid of you! You could've just demanded that someone else pay for your education! Canadians just don't get it!!!!

So Paul, how do tuition prices over the course of your studies compare to current prices in the US? What about wages? Has pay kept up with inflation in Canada? Are you comparing apples to apples?

edwardmurphy wrote:So Paul, how do tuition prices over the course of your studies compare to current prices in the US? What about wages? Has pay kept up with inflation in Canada? Are you comparing apples to apples?

It doesn't really matter because education is expensive everywhere.
People simply have to decide if they are going to work for their education or go into debt for their education.
The choice is theirs and they just need to stop complaining about it and certainly NOT ask anyone else to pay for it.

Of course it matters! "Expensive" is a relative term.

RickD wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:I suppose, but still, doesn't she have a point? College has become a requirement for getting a decent job, but the job market isn't what it used to be and tuition has gone through the roof. That means that a lot of American kids are college educated, deeply in debt, and stuck living with their parents and working 2-3 low-paying jobs to cover their student loans. Is it unreasonable for her to want the same opportunities and security that were available to her parents and grandparents? And is it unreasonable for her to expect the grow-ups to figure out how to provide it?

Ed,

What I'm talking about is her idea that the richest 1% should pay for other peoples' college debt.

You make a choice to spend tens of thousands of dollars, with no guarantee that you'll get any job from it, then go in debt, and just expect others to bail you out? What kind of mindset is that? It's ridiculous.

Make the rich oppressors pay for our bad choices. Nobody forced them to go into debt. Nobody held a gun to their heads, and made them go to college.

Make stupid, irresponsible decisions, and you need to deal with the consequences.

Thing is though, what kind of jobs are available with little, or no education? Why study at all unless you can afford college fees?

Storyteller wrote:

RickD wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:I suppose, but still, doesn't she have a point? College has become a requirement for getting a decent job, but the job market isn't what it used to be and tuition has gone through the roof. That means that a lot of American kids are college educated, deeply in debt, and stuck living with their parents and working 2-3 low-paying jobs to cover their student loans. Is it unreasonable for her to want the same opportunities and security that were available to her parents and grandparents? And is it unreasonable for her to expect the grow-ups to figure out how to provide it?

Ed,

What I'm talking about is her idea that the richest 1% should pay for other peoples' college debt.

You make a choice to spend tens of thousands of dollars, with no guarantee that you'll get any job from it, then go in debt, and just expect others to bail you out? What kind of mindset is that? It's ridiculous.

Make the rich oppressors pay for our bad choices. Nobody forced them to go into debt. Nobody held a gun to their heads, and made them go to college.

Make stupid, irresponsible decisions, and you need to deal with the consequences.

Thing is though, what kind of jobs are available with little, or no education? Why study at all unless you can afford college fees?

1) there's scholarships that can help pay for tuition
2) there are jobs one can get to help pay for tuition
3) people are complaining that even with a college education, there aren't good paying jobs
4) some kind of trade school is a good option
5) your daughter can marry a rich man

1) And where does the money for those come from?
2) Where?
3) That`s cos all the professors get the money
4) What`s a trade school?
5) My daughter is never, ever getting married. First sign of boyfriends and we`re locking her up!

1) at least in the US, money from scholarships comes from generous donations, and/or scholarship funds.

2) there are no jobs in England, that one can work at to pay for college? Maybe you can start your own dentistry. There's a field that's in great need, in England. Yeah baby!

3) college isn't for everyone. You need to decide if the cost is worth it.

4) a trade school is where one goes to learn a specific trade, like plumbing, electrician, heating and air conditioning...trade schools are different than college, because they focus on teaching the skills of the trade. Unlike colleges, there's no liberal indoctrination being taught to the students.

5) no boyfriends? That's great. Start her on the road to lesbianism while she's young. Save her the heartbreak of dealing with men, who are the scum of the earth!

I`d hate to be a dentist

If my daughter does want to go to college she already has a college fund set up by her grandpa.

The trade school, yeah we have them, but she doesn`t want to be an electrician or plumber..... or bricklayer. She wants to be a vet, an author and a zoologist.

She`s going to be a nun if I have anything to do with it!

edwardmurphy wrote:Of course it matters! "Expensive" is a relative term.

But we aren't talking about expensive are we?
We are talking about a sense of entitlement.
The moment you have to pay for something like post-secondary education, you are NOT entitled to it.
You have to earn it.
If you can't pay for it and chose the option of debt, then it is YOUR problem and no one elses.

The part you're overlooking is that it's much harder to earn it than it used to be, because tuition (and the cost of living) have increased substantially and wages haven't kept pace. "Back in my day" arguments don't mean much if you don't adjust for inflation.

Just saying.. every year I was in college the tuition rose by ~$1,000. Colleges are businesses and are robbing us. There is no such thing as equality to higher education. Want assistance? Be a single mother, illegal immigrant, don't be white, be a girl, don't be a common demographic that goes to the school, and if you want a free ride? Be all those things.

edwardmurphy wrote:The part you're overlooking is that it's much harder to earn it than it used to be, because tuition (and the cost of living) have increased substantially and wages haven't kept pace. "Back in my day" arguments don't mean much if you don't adjust for inflation.

This isn't a "back in the day argument" at all.
It is a simple statement of fact.
You have two choices when paying for an education yourself:
Pay for it by working a combination of full time and part time.
Pay for it by going into debt.

Whatever path you choose is up to you and the consequences are yours also and NO ONE else's responsibility by your own.

Gotcha. And the fact that paying for an education yourself is much more difficult than it was 20+ years ago, not to mention harder in the US than in Canada, is immaterial. As is the fact that our nations wealth is largely in the hands of a tiny minority, the middle class is getting squeezed, and the American dream is dying. None of that is contextually significant. All that matters is that those 18-year-olds take personal responsibility.