Evidence for God from Science

IceMobster wrote:

RickD wrote:

IceMobster wrote:

By today's standards, yes he is a pedophile. By then's standards, no he is not.
Where did you get that he had demonic visions?
And so what if he was violent? Christianity was no better as it spread by a sword as well (America, the Crusades (and I am not talking about the Crusades to free the Holy Land,...).

I don't care what time in history it is, a grown man having sex with a 9 year old child, is a pedophile.

As far as the demonic visions, just familiarize yourself with what lead Muhammad to write the Koran. He supposedly heard from an angel named Gabriel. And it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to understand that what "Gabriel" told Muhammad, contradicts scripture. This demon named Gabriel, lead Muhammad to begin a false religion.

Reminds me of a definition of Christianity on a urban dictionary site: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
See the nonsense?

Yes. You seem to be spewing nonsense. If you had even a superficial understanding of how Islam came to be, you'd see.

The same thing that was done by these people who created the definition, you are doing to Islam.

You really don't have any idea about Islam, do you?

Enlighten me. Possibly through not using sarcasm.

Google is your friend. You can learn as much or as little as you want by studying.

RickD wrote:Can someone tell me how "Islamic thought was hijacked by those who want to further an agenda" which is different than what Islam was founded on?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but Wasn't Islam founded by a violent, murdering pedophile, who wrote the Koran based on demonic visions he had?

Aren't the violent Muslims continuing the agenda that the originator of Islam had?

The question is: "When was Islam hijacked? In order to find out, we need to check all the battles with non-Muslims starting with when Muhammad was alive and after. Were they battles of aggression or battles of self-defence?

Muhammad died 632 AD:

633 AD : Arabs invaded Persia.

635 AD : Arabs invaded Syria.

638 AD : Arabs took Jerusalem.

640 AD : Arabs invaded Egypt.

649 AD : Arabs invaded Cypress.

661-667 AD : Arabs lay siege to Constantinople.

670 AD : Arabs invaded Libya and Tunisia.

711 AD : Arabs invaded Spain.

722 AD : Arabs invaded France.

733 AD : Arab armies reached as far as Poitiers in Gall.

This is only a short list and I could go on and on and on. Notice, there's not a single example of non-Muslims invading the Arab deserts - it's only the Arab Bedouins invading other peoples' lands using the Koran to justify and facilitate the naked aggression.

I haven't had the time to check the following out during Muhammad's lifetime.

623 Battle of Waddan
623 Battle of Safwan
623 Battle of Dul-'Ashir
624 Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement
624 Battle of Badr
624 Battle of Bani Salim
624 Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
624 Battle of Sawiq
624 Battle of Ghatfan
624 Battle of Bahran
625 Battle of Uhud--70 Muslims are killed
625 Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 Battle of Banu Nudair
625 Battle of Dhatur-Riqa

There all sorts of battles and junk up until the Pope was asked for help and the Crusades started.

I don't think my Pastor has clue one about Islam or Muhammad.

What's he trying to do? I don't know yet; maybe after the first session I'll have a clue.

Hey thanks, Guys. I haven't had the time to read all the responses yet, but appreciate your input.

RickD wrote:

IceMobster wrote:

RickD wrote:

IceMobster wrote:

By today's standards, yes he is a pedophile. By then's standards, no he is not.
Where did you get that he had demonic visions?
And so what if he was violent? Christianity was no better as it spread by a sword as well (America, the Crusades (and I am not talking about the Crusades to free the Holy Land,...).

I don't care what time in history it is, a grown man having sex with a 9 year old child, is a pedophile.

As far as the demonic visions, just familiarize yourself with what lead Muhammad to write the Koran. He supposedly heard from an angel named Gabriel. And it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to understand that what "Gabriel" told Muhammad, contradicts scripture. This demon named Gabriel, lead Muhammad to begin a false religion.

Reminds me of a definition of Christianity on a urban dictionary site: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
See the nonsense?

Yes. You seem to be spewing nonsense. If you had even a superficial understanding of how Islam came to be, you'd see.

The same thing that was done by these people who created the definition, you are doing to Islam.

You really don't have any idea about Islam, do you?

Enlighten me. Possibly through not using sarcasm.

Google is your friend. You can learn as much or as little as you want by studying.

Myeah. "I have no idea about it so I'll just say to him to use google. Islam is demon envisioned religion because they reject Christ as God. Hurr durr."
I am well aware of Islam's spreading by the sword(as summarized in the above post), but Christianity spread by sword, as well.

IceLobster wrote:
Myeah. "I have no idea about it so I'll just say to him to use google. Islam is demon envisioned religion because they reject Christ as God. Hurr durr."
I am well aware of Islam's spreading by the sword(as summarized in the above post), but Christianity spread by sword, as well.

This discussion forum thing works a lot better if you pay attention to what I wrote, instead of saying I believe something that I never said.

How is/was Christianity spread by the sword? I think you need a lesson on Christianity too. Killing people in the name of Christ, isn't the same as "spreading Christianity by the sword".

Someone being forced to proclaim some false version of Christianity, does not make one a Christian.

IceMobster wrote:I am well aware of Islam's spreading by the sword(as summarized in the above post), but Christianity spread by sword, as well.

Re: Christianity, you know your Scripture well IM. (Eph 6:17)
Actually, what was used was sharper than any two-edged sword. (Hebrews 4:12)

Kurieuo wrote:

IceMobster wrote:I am well aware of Islam's spreading by the sword(as summarized in the above post), but Christianity spread by sword, as well.

Re: Christianity, you know your Scripture well IM. (Eph 6:17)
Actually, what was used was sharper than any two-edged sword. (Hebrews 4:12)

Hoist by his own petard!

In Christianity our sword is the word of God.How come atheists don't know this?And Christianity is spread by the word of God our sword. Sure is funny though I don't see the FBI investigating Christian churches and Christians but they are muslim mosques and muslims in the US.Also more Christians have been killed for their faith in Christ at the hands of islamic terrorists that at any other time in history.

RickD wrote:

IceLobster wrote:
Myeah. "I have no idea about it so I'll just say to him to use google. Islam is demon envisioned religion because they reject Christ as God. Hurr durr."
I am well aware of Islam's spreading by the sword(as summarized in the above post), but Christianity spread by sword, as well.

This discussion forum thing works a lot better if you pay attention to what I wrote, instead of saying I believe something that I never said.

How is/was Christianity spread by the sword? I think you need a lesson on Christianity too. Killing people in the name of Christ, isn't the same as "spreading Christianity by the sword".

Someone being forced to proclaim some false version of Christianity, does not make one a Christian.

Are you autistic or what?

Following your dumb logic you can say that killing people in the name of Allah/Islam is not the same as spreading Islam by sword.

Anyways, ever heard of Crusades? Inquisition? Most of the Scandinavia and Baltic was forced to convert to Christianity. What about America?...

Of course, converting someone by force is (probably) not a true conversion, but nevertheless, give credit where credit is due.

IceMobster,

What was happening up until the 11th Century when the first Crusade?
The distortions today in our Western Humanist climate, you'd need to personally examine case by case what happened rather than just go with social sentiments of what many just nod to. I doubt 99% of people really know what happened in the past, what the crusades were about, etc. They've just learnt to regurgitate snippets of sentiments they've picked up.
Nonetheless, I'm aware of bad things. Christians fighting against Christians.
A sad state of affairs some things in the past. I don't understand.
BUT, there will be an accounting in the end.

The better thing to do is look to the founders and what they taught.
Forget Christianity, I follow Christ, and his teachings aren't about violence or the sword.
Jesus talks of hypocrites in Matthew 6. Take a read.

Anyone who'd paint Christ in that light would have rocks in their head.
Muhammad on the other hand, Muslims often acknowledge and are proud of his military accomplishments.
Look at the founders themselves IceMobster and what do you see?

Lastly, if this is a case of scores for who has done the worst, then irreligion has the worst score.
Nevermind that tu quoque is never really a good thing.
One side can't be justified by "you too!" finger point at the other side.
Such doesn't remove the truth of the matter.

IceMobster wrote:

RickD wrote:

IceLobster wrote:
Myeah. "I have no idea about it so I'll just say to him to use google. Islam is demon envisioned religion because they reject Christ as God. Hurr durr."
I am well aware of Islam's spreading by the sword(as summarized in the above post), but Christianity spread by sword, as well.

This discussion forum thing works a lot better if you pay attention to what I wrote, instead of saying I believe something that I never said.

How is/was Christianity spread by the sword? I think you need a lesson on Christianity too. Killing people in the name of Christ, isn't the same as "spreading Christianity by the sword".

Someone being forced to proclaim some false version of Christianity, does not make one a Christian.

Are you autistic or what?

Following your dumb logic you can say that killing people in the name of Allah/Islam is not the same as spreading Islam by sword.

Anyways, ever heard of Crusades? Inquisition? Most of the Scandinavia and Baltic was forced to convert to Christianity. What about America?...

Of course, converting someone by force is (probably) not a true conversion, but nevertheless, give credit where credit is due.

Your response in bold is what I was getting at. See what happens when you start to pay attention?

IceMobster,

As Kurieuo was saying, look at the founders of each religion. Who was Muhammad, and what did he do? Who is Jesus Christ, and what has he done?

Here's a good link to get you started with the basics:
https://carm.org/comparison-between-jesus-and-muhammad

And this link goes into a little more detail:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/founders.htm

The following link is the Timeline of the Islamic Crusades:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... meline.htm

It explains why Christians started to fight back.

Granted the Christians ran amok.

Christian2,

Any updates with your pastor?

RickD wrote:Christian2,

Any updates with your pastor?

We were emailed handouts for the first session, which were not written by my Pastor, but was written by a Christian Pastor, Ben Daniel, who wrote:



Editorial review: A beautifully written corrective to fears about Islam."

I will get a flavor for his intentions on Saturday, but I would say that his goal is to correct Christian fears about Islam.

When I reviewed this video series I noticed in the first section the Muslim speaker said "Arab Christians worship Allah" I mentioned to my Pastor that this statement is very misleading. It sounded like the intention of the Muslim was to leave the impression that Christians and Muslims worshipped the same God. I pointed out to him that Christians and Jews call God Allah simply because they are Arabic speaking and in Arabic God is called Allah, but they don't have the same concept of God as Muslims do. I spoke to an Arabic speaking Christian and she is a Trinitarian and believes Jesus died and rose from the dead.

The handout says: "Arabic speaking Christians and Jews continue to use the word "Allah" in reference to God to this day." DUH!!!

I think having a Muslim in attendance will inhibit conversation out of respect for her feelings. I better idea would have been to have her come in for the last half hour for questions.

I'm curious what the Pastor's prayer will be like. Will he end his prayer as usual with "we pray this in the name of our Savior the Lord Jesus Christ?

What I need to do is watch the tone of my voice while making comments. I'm practicing now. LOL