Evidence for God from Science

Philip wrote:So, Ed, what I want to know is not about how we might have played into the Islamists hands, but what do you think we should do to stop the carnage? Talk nice? Be nice? Withdraw from every Islamic land? Do you really think that people more than willing to massacre their own Islamic peoples are going to respond positively to ANY of our overtures or changes in policies? Do we just do NOTHING but change policies, increase security, and just WAIT and absorb massacre after massacre? How do you stop those with such a mentality?

Keep killing the bad guys, stay vigilant, tone down the inflammatory rhetoric, stop blaming an entire faith responsible for the actions of a tiny fraction of its adherents, treat American Muslims with the same respect that white, American Christians take for granted, and start treating Muslim war refugees the way your Savior says people should be treated.

That won't prevent all future attacks - nothing will - but it will help.

Ed, it isn't about inflamatory rheteric, what WE say or do. I'm not sure you can understand because of your irreligious beliefs, you don't know what you're truly dealing with.

People who seriously believe in "far-out" beliefs as normally "the religious" do, can result is a great deal of pain if such are wrongly directed or harnessed.... to seriously believe that if I die in the name of Allah, sacrificing myself that I'll have virgins in paradise waiting on the other side. To believe that the death sentence to people who have same-sex relations should be law, to believe that women are in fact of less value than men, such are all embedded beliefs.

These beliefs are held, seriously held. You on the understand look through your secular glasses and expect people, Muslim people, Christian people, to see and desire how you make sense of life. With such, you might a worried about the life of people here and now, minority groups, and what could be praised as good "liberal" values.

BUT, and listen carefully here, people who believe this life isn't all there is, that there's a better life awaiting, will never accept your way of thinking and common sense. Many truly believe it is good and even an act of mercy to the many being blown up or killed in suicide bombings, mass killing events, and the like... that bombing of the gay night club was an act of mercy to the homosexuals who were degrading themselves.

As the type of "liberal" valued Atheist you are, I'm sorry, but I don't think you truly understand the gravity of such a belief system like Islam, and if they truly believe in Allah like I do Christ, the absolute impossibility of talking any sense of Christ-centred or modern Humanist values and ideals into such.

So no, the answer isn't that people are being mean and should be nice and more accepting of Islamic beliefs, such is direct contradiction of and affrontation to true Liberalism. As rich as it sounds, since we hear it said so vacantly, we need to love the Muslim but reject their beliefs that are a threat to freedom, values and ideals we otherwise share.

edwardmurphy wrote:

Philip wrote:So, Ed, what I want to know is not about how we might have played into the Islamists hands, but what do you think we should do to stop the carnage? Talk nice? Be nice? Withdraw from every Islamic land? Do you really think that people more than willing to massacre their own Islamic peoples are going to respond positively to ANY of our overtures or changes in policies? Do we just do NOTHING but change policies, increase security, and just WAIT and absorb massacre after massacre? How do you stop those with such a mentality?

Keep killing the bad guys, stay vigilant, tone down the inflammatory rhetoric, stop blaming an entire faith responsible for the actions of a tiny fraction of its adherents, treat American Muslims with the same respect that white, American Christians take for granted, and start treating Muslim war refugees the way your Savior says people should be treated.

That won't prevent all future attacks - nothing will - but it will help.

That is suicidal ed. We see Islamic terrorist attacks everywhere Muslims live in the world and we don't see this with any other religion or people,only where Muslims live. We cannot tell who is a terrorist and who is'nt and we do not have to allow Muslims into our country when we see Islamic terrorist attacks everywhere they live in the world. Every Islamic terrorist attack proves you are naive,suicidal and wrong in your judgment about Muslims.And it only helps Trump and even though Hillary is sounding tougher now? She is flip-flopping now and all Trump will have to do is go back in the primaries and show what Hillary was saying then and make a flip-flop ad.

ACB, Americans get gunned down by Americans all the time. It happens at malls, in restaurants, at their jobs, and in their classrooms. By your logic it's suicidal to be an American in America because any American could snap at any time. That's bad reasoning.

With the whole world in flames right now, and Donald Trump seeming like the only candidate with a backbone, I think he may win, assuming Hillary doesn't suddenly become a war hawk overnight. Which she could pantomime, but probably not, since her foreign interests would drop their support of her.

#NeverHitlery

RickD wrote:#NeverHitlery

Pretty much, though I don't prefer the reckless use of Third Reich references.

People may ask me, "Are you a Trumpist or a Hillary?" I am neither, I am simply not for Hillary Clinton using the national budget as her purse. She is a financial-anorexic, she will look in the mirror, or her wallet, and never feel she has enough money.

Hortator wrote:

RickD wrote:#NeverHitlery

Pretty much, though I don't prefer the reckless use of Third Reich references.

People may ask me, "Are you a Trumpist or a Hillary?" I am neither, I am simply not for Hillary Clinton using the national budget as her purse. She is a financial-anorexic, she will look in the mirror, or her wallet, and never feel she has enough money.

While #NeverHitlery is funny, it's not accurate.

I'm changing it to

#NeverLyingEnablingHillary

Kurieuo wrote:As the type of "liberal" valued Atheist you are, I'm sorry, but I don't think you truly understand the gravity of such a belief system like Islam, and if they truly believe in Allah like I do Christ, the absolute impossibility of talking any sense of Christ-centred or modern Humanist values and ideals into such.

I don't think that most Muslims (or most Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc) believe in their gods like you believe in Christ. I think that the vast majority of religious people are more culturally religious than anything else. I know lots of Christians, and almost none of them take their faith anywhere near as seriously as the people here do. They believe, or at least they claim to, but their faith isn't central to their lives. I think that most people, regardless of which box they check on a census form, are more interested in stability, safety, and prosperity than in anything else. They want to live their lives, raise their kids, and relax in their old age.

Kurieuo wrote:So no, the answer isn't that people are being mean and should be nice and more accepting of Islamic beliefs, such is direct contradiction of and affrontation to true Liberalism. As rich as it sounds, since we hear it said so vacantly, we need to love the Muslim but reject their beliefs that are a threat to freedom, values and ideals we otherwise share.

Let's be clear here - terrorism isn't caused by Westerners being mean to Muslims, and no amount of being polite is going to stop ISIS from murdering people and trying to destabilize the world. This is a war, ISIS is the enemy of all that is just and decent, and they need to be destroyed. And they are being destroyed. Their leaders are dropping like flies and they're steadily losing people and territory. We won't see the end of terrorism in the world any time soon, but ISIS is living on borrowed time.

My concern is that inflammatory rhetoric and draconian policies are being aimed at the 1.6ish billion Muslims who aren't at war with the West. They're not our enemies, but if we push them far enough them more of them will be.

on one hand, Ed wrote:
Let's be clear here - terrorism isn't caused by Westerners being mean to Muslims, and no amount of being polite is going to stop ISIS from murdering people and trying to destabilize the world.

and on the other hand, Ed wrote:
My concern is that inflammatory rhetoric and draconian policies are being aimed at the 1.6ish billion Muslims who aren't at war with the West. They're not our enemies, but if we push them far enough them more of them will be.

Let's see...

According to Ed, terrorism isn't caused by westerners being mean to Muslims. And at the same time, we shouldn't push Muslims, because then they'll attack us.

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up Ed!!!

RickD wrote:

on one hand, Ed wrote:
Let's be clear here - terrorism isn't caused by Westerners being mean to Muslims, and no amount of being polite is going to stop ISIS from murdering people and trying to destabilize the world.

and on the other hand, Ed wrote:
My concern is that inflammatory rhetoric and draconian policies are being aimed at the 1.6ish billion Muslims who aren't at war with the West. They're not our enemies, but if we push them far enough them more of them will be.

Let's see...

According to Ed, terrorism isn't caused by westerners being mean to Muslims. And at the same time, we shouldn't push Muslims, because then they'll attack us.

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up Ed!!!

No problem, Rick. And thanks for taking the time to be deliberately obtuse.

edwardmurphy wrote:

RickD wrote:

on one hand, Ed wrote:
Let's be clear here - terrorism isn't caused by Westerners being mean to Muslims, and no amount of being polite is going to stop ISIS from murdering people and trying to destabilize the world.

and on the other hand, Ed wrote:
My concern is that inflammatory rhetoric and draconian policies are being aimed at the 1.6ish billion Muslims who aren't at war with the West. They're not our enemies, but if we push them far enough them more of them will be.

Let's see...

According to Ed, terrorism isn't caused by westerners being mean to Muslims. And at the same time, we shouldn't push Muslims, because then they'll attack us.

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up Ed!!!

No problem, Rick. And thanks for taking the time to be deliberately obtuse.

Anything for you, Meine Liebchen.

If the day comes when you're on your knees, about to receive a sword to your neck by masked men, you wont be thinking "If only I had been nicer ;("

Plus, if just being mean to someone gives you the right and authority to murder them, I'm surprised you're still alive, Ed. Sounds like they are in the wrong if they feel being slighted or dishonored gives them due cause to end the life of any Westerner.

edwardmurphy wrote:ACB, Americans get gunned down by Americans all the time. It happens at malls, in restaurants, at their jobs, and in their classrooms. By your logic it's suicidal to be an American in America because any American could snap at any time. That's bad reasoning.

You always go back to normal crime when it comes to Islamic terrorism. It is like you are in denial.

We just had another Islamic terrorist attack in Germany.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07 ... njures-20/