Evidence for God from Science

Romans talks about knowing Christ -- chapter 10: 9&10. "That is you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the Heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the Mouth confession is made unto salvation. vs 13 "For whosever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
1 Corinthians 15 first 5 verses or so says the same thing. vs 2 "by which ye are saved'.
The Fact being that everyone is born with the propensity For sinning. It's in our make-up. Everyone Will sin at some point in their lives. And because of That we are all deserving to end up in hell. Because Romans either 3 or 6 :23 says that the wages of sin is physical death. But the gift of God is eternal life. Through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Knowing Jesus Christ -- knowing About Him is head knowledge. The Heart knowledge is when a person Believes in their heart. A Personal acknowledging of 'your' need Of a Savior. Because the person acknowledges that Jesus Christ dying on the cross and paying for our sins with His shed blood, going to hell In Our Place and coming Back to life. Is All That Is Needed -- no good work on our part is needed by God to finish the job. We acknowledge Our need and accept His gift of salvation From hell and thank Him for what He's done For you.
And, yes, reading God's Word we learn about Him and His will for our lives -- learning to follow / following Christ is a life's journey.

I've known people who have been told about the plan of salvation / so are Fully aware Of it and flat out refuse to believe / accept Jesus Christ as Savior. That non-acceptance of a gift Will put a person in hell. Comparing that to having a tree with a special gift for You. It will only be a benefit To you if you accept the gift / pick it up and claim it for yourself. And thank the person who gave it to you. That special gift could be a warm coat to put on when it gets cold out. Without it you'd Freeze. And you even Know there's a coat there and yet you refuse to accept it. You go out into the cold and Freeze to death.
It's almost a Defiant attitude towards what a person has been told / shared with and the refusal.
That doesn't mean that a person has only One chance to accept Christ and then they are Doomed. Cause when I was really young, I felt the convicting of the Holy Spirit and didn't accept Him for a while. I finally Did, though.
But the attitude that 'I always have Tomorrow to accept Him' is Not a good plan. Because we Don't Know that we Do have Tomorrow.

Yo, Ice. Seeing if I can jump in to clarify anything (probably not )

Why is He not the righteous indignation in these times?

Two things. One is an assumption He is not. Two, His righteousness works different than ours (we don't have any... [meaning we also don't have a proper sense of justice]). And with that working of righteousness comes into play all else that is God (how to deal with sin/evil). As Katabole was saying, there are different and pre-known (to Him) times and interactions of God to man. What makes you think anything has been as bad after sodom to invoke His wrath? It will get that bad again, and then He will come again to permanently end a global decay of humanity.

I am doomed anyway. The Lord forgives not the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. And I am an apostate to the faith

You can be too presumptuous at times. If you keep getting similar answers to your questions, and you keep having conclusions that are disagreed with by the same people giving you answers (that build up to your conclusions), then something is off and wrong. And it's either you, or us. Guess which one I think it is? :p You might be an apsotate to a faith. I've seen no evidence of your blasphemy to the Holy Spirit.

Ok, what IS unforgivable sin?

Knowing the truth and disregarding it. By what you said, you never walked away from Christ because you never knew Him. Didn't you say you realized you never believed in the incarnation of Christ because that teaching has been programmed into you and one day you realized it? You can't know something you don't know. You know you never believed, only professed with your lips (if you did).

Unless you are a hardcore satanist which sees Christ as something evil (for dooming your god), why would you possibly or rather HOW COULD you possibly reject Christ once you KNOW him? Yet again, KNOW. What do you mean by know?

Most satanists (that we see, anyway) are really just confused humanists acting out their emotions in an overly emotional world view. I feel comfortable saying most never knew Christ and rejected Him for the same reasons most do (they don't feel like it, can't rationalize beyond the material <-contradiction). People say you can't possibly reject Christ after knowing Him, yet you can. It would just be ludicrous to, right? Well, that's why demons exist. They knew Him face to face. So, it's more than belief. It is knowing truth (no possible doubt) and trading it for delusion (a life not in tune with Existence aka YHWH). Creatures have know Jesus much more than any human and blatantly refused to acknowledge Him and follow Him.

Know Him intellectually? or know Him as in accepting Him as your personal Savior. A person Can 'know' Him intellectually and not 'know' Him spiritually. Once a person Knows Him Spiritually, the Holy Spirit comes immediately to indwell the person and never leaves him. His salvation is secure until he's with Jesus Christ in eternity.

Crochet: Know Him intellectually? or know Him as in accepting Him as your personal Savior. A person Can 'know' Him intellectually and not 'know' Him spiritually. Once a person Knows Him Spiritually, the Holy Spirit comes immediately to indwell the person and never leaves him. His salvation is secure until he's with Jesus Christ in eternity

Yes, because IF a person's salvation was ALSO the work of THEIR perseverance, as opposed to Christ's ALONE, then 1) NO one could ever be confident of their salvation, because 2) they would have no idea as to whether they could or would persevere all the way to the end of their life, and 3) that would make salvation, INSTEAD of a COMPLETED work of God (completed at the Cross, once and forever, and beginning at the moment of one's salvation), AND ONLY SO as the work and faithfulness of Jesus, but rather a highly dubious and insecure state, also dependent upon a sinful human to stay faithful to the end, and dependent upon their own pathetic human willpower and ability to do so. This is an unScriptural, "Jesus-PLUS" belief. And thank God Christ did not save us, only to risk HIS glorious work per our own sinful inclinations. The LORD is the Source of, not ONLY our salvation, but also of our perseverance!

The above is why the Apostle Paul could and did exclaim: "And I am sure of this, that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."

Philip -- you Do have the Holy Spirit's role in their somewhere? You DO have an interesting way of explaining eternal security. And, very accurate.
You're right -- None of 'this' can be done on our own. Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves ; it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast."

And, when praying -- we Do need to realize that God Does know what is Best. His Will is that we come to know Him personally -- grow spiritually -- in knowledge of Him -- grow to be More Christ-like. And That tends to go contrary to our human nature / inclination.
What we do in word or deed, do All to the Glory of God. That is Supposed to be our goal -- to bring glory to God -- and That is getting to be harder and harder to do -- lots of pressure from Society to 'give in' -- to Not be so Bible oriented. Be willing to 'fudge' here and there in order to be more accepted by others.
This world is full of battles / hardships and it's Much easier to give advice, words of encouragement to Others having problems. But when it's happening TO ME -- well -- we all need someone to be there With Us -- through the situation.

crochet1949 wrote:.

I am aware that I need saving. I just don't see how Jesus' act does it. As if God alone can't save me.

I suppose this is the problem, as well:

Katabole wrote:We have different worldviews. My worldview on Christ as the incarnation of God is based on my acceptance of the historical truth of Scripture.

so please take it easy with quoting the Scripture left and right.
Because, yeah, the NT says Jesus is God whilst the spiderman comics claim spiderman is bitten by a mutant spider (etc).
I do understand that one is a comic and the other is a book that changed our history and even though it has great messages, some parts of it or even all parts of it could be a lie.

Mallz wrote:Yo, Ice. Seeing if I can jump in to clarify anything (probably not )

Mallz wrote: Two things. One is an assumption He is not. Two, His righteousness works different than ours (we don't have any... [meaning we also don't have a proper sense of justice]). And with that working of righteousness comes into play all else that is God (how to deal with sin/evil). As Katabole was saying, there are different and pre-known (to Him) times and interactions of God to man. What makes you think anything has been as bad after sodom to invoke His wrath? It will get that bad again, and then He will come again to permanently end a global decay of humanity.

Can't wait.

Mallz wrote: You can be too presumptuous at times. If you keep getting similar answers to your questions, and you keep having conclusions that are disagreed with by the same people giving you answers (that build up to your conclusions), then something is off and wrong. And it's either you, or us. Guess which one I think it is? :p You might be an apsotate to a faith. I've seen no evidence of your blasphemy to the Holy Spirit.

Ok, then explain that verse to me, please. How do you blasphemy to the Holy Spirit? What of the people that do? Does Jesus' sacrifice not outweigh any sin/blasphemy/wrongdoing??

Mallz wrote: Knowing the truth and disregarding it. By what you said, you never walked away from Christ because you never knew Him. Didn't you say you realized you never believed in the incarnation of Christ because that teaching has been programmed into you and one day you realized it? You can't know something you don't know. You know you never believed, only professed with your lips (if you did).

Agreed. YET BLOODY AGAIN, which idiot would disregard the Truth in case he knew it? That is inconceivable to me.

Mallz wrote: Most satanists (that we see, anyway) are really just confused humanists acting out their emotions in an overly emotional world view. I feel comfortable saying most never knew Christ and rejected Him for the same reasons most do (they don't feel like it, can't rationalize beyond the material <-contradiction). People say you can't possibly reject Christ after knowing Him, yet you can. It would just be ludicrous to, right? Well, that's why demons exist. They knew Him face to face. So, it's more than belief. It is knowing truth (no possible doubt) and trading it for delusion (a life not in tune with Existence aka YHWH). Creatures have know Jesus much more than any human and blatantly refused to acknowledge Him and follow Him.

Aye, you talk of LaVeyans which are not really satanists since they neglect the existence of a deity, but are some humanists promoting individualism. Eh, idk what to say on the rest of the text. So, demons delude humans who know of Christ? Hmmm, I do have an acquaintance who went through that (at least, he claims so...).

Since you started out referring to a quote of mine -- though only your response came through -- I'll respond a bit. You say you are aware of Your need for being saved. Well, that's a step in the right direction. God Has provided The way for you To be saved and That is Through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was born , died and then rose again bodily. He went to hell In Our Place and then back From there. That means We don't Need to end up in hell. The Only reason People end up in hell is because they Don't accept God's way of being able to stay Out. He has The gift of Salvation available for everyone who realizes they Need it and ask for it. And thank God for His gift.
Why should we lay off sharing Scripture? It IS God's Word and He Wants us to read and share it with others.
So -- even though you accept it as having greatly influenced history -- and has a great message -- it Could Still Be full of lies -- or at least partially lying.
The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit could only take place while Christ was here on earth? Seeing Him performing miracles and attributing it to satan. Giving satan credit for what the Holy Spirit / Godhead was doing. Satan and God are obviously at opposite ends of the spectrum.
The blood of Christ covers Everything. Yes, but the person needs to acknowledge his personal need for salvation. Openly rejecting the only way To after knowing the only way available -- is what it is -- a one-way ticket to 'you know where'. And it's really scary to hear someone talking that way.
Satan is the greatest deceiver of people ever created. He wants as much company in hell as possible and once a person gets there and realizes the Truth -- it's TOO LATE. And satan Knows This. So he whispers in our ears -- God doesn't Really mean what He says. He's just joking around. So - who do we listen to? God's Word , hopefully.

IceMobster wrote: I am aware that I need saving. I just don't see how Jesus' act does it. As if God alone can't save me.

Jesus is God...? He alone did save you, with Himself (all 3 persons :-p)

Ok, then explain that verse to me, please. How do you blasphemy to the Holy Spirit? What of the people that do? Does Jesus' sacrifice not outweigh any sin/blasphemy/wrongdoing??

I thought I did?
People who blaspheme the Holy Spirit knowingly reject YHWH/Existence (Jesus obviously included). It's like me saying murdering for fun is wrong and 'you' need to repent of it. I'll show you why it's wrong. I'll show you how it degrades and destroys yourself and others. It's not the proper way to live. After realizing it, 'you' decide 'I don't care that it's harmful to myself or others, I like murdering, so I'm going to keep doing it!'. And then 'you' get rejected from YHWH eternally because you're an A** H***.

Agreed. YET BLOODY AGAIN, which idiot would disregard the Truth in case he knew it? That is inconceivable to me.

Hmm. We all disregard the truth on a daily basis, bro. What things do you do to yourself that aren't the healthiest? Things you engage in that aren't for building yourself or others up? I'm glad if you realized THE Truth (Jesus), it would be inconceivable to reject Him. That's unfortunately not the same with other creatures.

Aye, you talk of LaVeyans which are not really satanists since they neglect the existence of a deity, but are some humanists promoting individualism. Eh, idk what to say on the rest of the text. So, demons delude humans who know of Christ? Hmmm, I do have an acquaintance who went through that (at least, he claims so...).

Demons don't need to delude humans. Humans delude themselves and play with demons. And they all play with each other (humans rarely realizing it) and get all gross. I was just showing an example of created beings who have rejected truth and blatantly known it. BTW, to reject truth, it's enough that you won't even allow yourself to obtain the truth. That's a heart expression. Kinda like rejected general revelation. If you can't even get that far....

I think the only way we can really know God is through Christ. He is our path to the Father.
As mere humans, how can we really have any concept of who God is? Christ again. Fully human to show us how to live by the will of God. Died and took on all our sin so we can reunite with our Creator.
Deny Christ, you blaspheme the HS.
Reject the truth and you put yourself in hell, away from the God you reject.

Mallz wrote: Jesus is God...? He alone did save you, with Himself (all 3 persons :-p)

...

Mallz wrote: I thought I did?
People who blaspheme the Holy Spirit knowingly reject YHWH/Existence (Jesus obviously included). It's like me saying murdering for fun is wrong and 'you' need to repent of it. I'll show you why it's wrong. I'll show you how it degrades and destroys yourself and others. It's not the proper way to live. After realizing it, 'you' decide 'I don't care that it's harmful to myself or others, I like murdering, so I'm going to keep doing it!'. And then 'you' get rejected from YHWH eternally because you're an A** H***.

I do not reject Existence, but I do reject Jesus. What now? The example you provided is bad. I don't murder around because I don't believe in Christ. I am not being destroyed or am destroying others if I don't believe in Christ. Also, how am I being harmful to others or to myself because I don't believe in Christ?

Mallz wrote: Hmm. We all disregard the truth on a daily basis, bro. What things do you do to yourself that aren't the healthiest? Things you engage in that aren't for building yourself or others up? I'm glad if you realized THE Truth (Jesus), it would be inconceivable to reject Him. That's unfortunately not the same with other creatures.

We disregard truth on a daily basis? Huh? Healthiness =/= truth
Not the same with other creatures? Creatures? Dafuq?

Mallz wrote: Demons don't need to delude humans. Humans delude themselves and play with demons. And they all play with each other (humans rarely realizing it) and get all gross. I was just showing an example of created beings who have rejected truth and blatantly known it. BTW, to reject truth, it's enough that you won't even allow yourself to obtain the truth. That's a heart expression. Kinda like rejected general revelation. If you can't even get that far....

Ah... I feel this is going nowhere...

Storyteller wrote:I think the only way we can really know God is through Christ. He is our path to the Father.
As mere humans, how can we really have any concept of who God is? Christ again. Fully human to show us how to live by the will of God. Died and took on all our sin so we can reunite with our Creator.
Deny Christ, you blaspheme the HS.
Reject the truth and you put yourself in hell, away from the God you reject.

What you and crochet are doing is not helpful, you know. It becomes annoying at some point.
You can stop repeating that the only way we can really know God is through Christ since the 2/3 of the world population disagrees, including me, and the sole repetition of that leads us (or rather, me) nowhere.
How can we really have any concept of who God is? Well, philosophy already did so. Theology, as well. Not necessarily Christ.
Fully human that showed us how to live by? The possibility is that the Christ is no the incarnation of God and that Scripture is . Never crossed your mind?
Concerning the verse from Matthew, I still don't understand why are we still having this conversation, then? I am doing the blasphemy since I negate the incarnation of God through Christ and hence I will not be forgiven.

IceMobster wrote:...I am aware that I need saving. I just don't see how Jesus' act does it. As if God alone can't save me.

Only God can save you. So are you actually demanding God save you according to your terms or not?

So how does Jesus’ act save? Well here’s how:

God came in human flesh and shared in our humanity. There is great justice in this in that no one can accuse God of not knowing what it is like to be a frail human born midst crazy dysfunctional families, calamities, oppression, abuse, neglect, crime, murder, thuggery, as well as the other fleeting side of humanities virtues of decency that always get squashed.

There is no way to explain the triune nature of God to anyone in an easy manner. The best example is an orange. You have one orange. You have the peeling, fruit, and juice that makes the orange one orange. The scripture is clear when it states there is none like God. He is not like us. He is spirit.

So to grasp this and know who Jesus is, I will use the weak example of the orange: The peeling, fruit, and juice are all the same, are all coequal in function, yet different in personality. For example, the Peel holds all things altogether and adds zest, the fruit produces/creates seed, and the Juice established life.

God is not like us at all, so the second person of the Godhead, the fruit / bread / wisdom from God - Jesus came into this world full of mixed up human craziness and tragedy and abuse and abandonment to reconcile lost humanity back to God. So Jesus is God come in human flesh and alone can save you.

Humanity choose the path of sin over God's perfect loving ways. So God came in human flesh to do a work that only God can do because human beings, like ourselves, cannot earn or work our way back to God's favor or find salvation in the things we do as we mess it up, all the time.

Why is that?

The reasons are very multifaceted. For example, we create gods in our own image to exploit for self-gain through deal making. The bases of our earning our place in the sun is to demand God serve us on our terms, or else. We design religious systems to justify living un-virtuously and helpless. We mess things up all the time. We have fallen into living enslaved in dysfunctional ways and can't escape these for very long.

Midst this God came to us to offer us his terms so we can attain what Isaiah 61:1,2,3,4 mentions.

Do you desire any of these?

When Jesus came as 100 percent God and 100 percent man He came to reconcile us back to God. In order to do this, what separates us from God must be revealed. For God so loved the world that he came into the world midst all its craziness and abuse to condemn sin and heal the broken hearts sin causes as well as cure it so we can return to God. Do you want to be healed? Tired of living the way you have been - tired of being trapped in paths of betrayal, mocking, neglect, rejection? How have these affected you?

When Jesus came, sharing our humanity he came and revealed the nature and true character of God by doing true good, healing, rebuking the unjust, setting things right. He revealed what true goodness is as well as reveal what humanity really does with true goodness, love, and godly virtues.

So the whole time Jesus was on earth sharing our humanity what happened?

Jesus in the gospel accounts records how he was plotted against, rejected, betrayed, abandoned by his friends, denied by his own, put on trial, abused, neglected, beaten, whipped, had his personal items stripped and gambled for, challenged to preform or else, made to carry a heavy burden one cannot fully bear (cross). For what? Doing good - true Good - revealing how God is midst people determined to make God bend to their rules.

Look at how we make fun of good people and do things to trip them up, how folks character assassinate others whom they do not like. We love to see the good decent fall and be as miserable as the rest of us. We do so by pitting the virtues of goodness against each other to gain the upper hand. Look around - can you see how humanity and even our own selves do these things?

So now ask yourself... how have you plotted against people, rejected, betrayed, abandoned friends, denied people, put folks on trial, abused, neglected, beaten, whipped, stolen from, challenged others to preform or else, and make another carry a heavy burden one cannot fully bear: Friends, family, spouse, strangers, acquaintances, God? How are you doing so right now?

Oh how we claim we are so good yet how have these things affected us and our behaviors. We are caught in a trap deceiving ourselves that our own goodness is so great and our improper actions are so justified because he, she, it did it to us.

For God so loved the world that he came into the world midst all its craziness and abuse to condemn sin and heal the broken hearts sin causes as well as cure it so we can return to God's goodness and be made whole. He did that work on the cross. Making a public spectacle out of the true enemy of humanity, exposing what sin really is, and provides the release from its slavery, forever.

What would you think best for the human race, to destroy it, force it against its will to love God, be allowed to make heaven into a living hell as we did here in this mortal life?

Why, we do not even behold the majesty of God at all but rather view the virtues of God's gift of life, promises, callings, and goodness as the means to exploit for one’s own gain. What cure could we ever offer up to save us from our own selves...

For God So Loved the World that He gave his unique Son to man - to abuse, mock, put on trial, beat, abandon, neglect, betray, exploit, place heavy burden upon, crucify to reveal (define) what sin really is and how enslaved we are to it. In doing this, God also judged humanity through Jesus.

How?

Jesus paid the sentence of death and condemnation for our sins. God placed on Jesus our judgment for the things we do to each other, our own selves, and God. He did this to awaken in people their need for God's true goodness and learn of it again to restore their true life destiny living in/by godly virtue back as God originally intended.

He wept in the garden, knowing that not all will be awakened to this but for those who would be, he came to rebuild their lives in ways they cannot for the better. That is called salvation. He sends forth the Holy Spirit to establish true life back inside a person that all our betraying, rejection, abuse destroyed, freely, by offering a simple choice to all humanity.

Please read these verses and what do you see? John 3:15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21

Do you love darkness more than light?

The cross exposes the answer and thus this is God's way - not man's...

So what is your answer Ice?

May it be found in Luke 18:9,10,11,12,13,14
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PS Ice - Story has given you some good insights too!

Then I shall bow out Ice.

Sorry if my posts and what I believe annoys you. But, I'm notgoing to tell you what you want to hear, am I?

As for considering the possibility that I'm wrong about Christ, that Scripture is wrong, duh! You obviously havent paid any attention to anything I post.

Ever consider that you're the one thats wrong?

IceMobster wrote:

Mallz wrote: Jesus is God...? He alone did save you, with Himself (all 3 persons :-p)

...

I couldn't help myself

I do not reject Existence, but I do reject Jesus. What now? The example you provided is bad. I don't murder around because I don't believe in Christ. I am not being destroyed or am destroying others if I don't believe in Christ. Also, how am I being harmful to others or to myself because I don't believe in Christ?

You don't equate Existence the same way I do. This will come off arrogant, but it's not the same Existence we are talking about. Jesus is the Word of God. He spoke Existence into existence. He is the person, the Son, of God, who is God. Help me explain myself if needed.
For the underlined: we all inadvertently do. If everyone lived how Christ lived, or at least always tried to (aka, following Christ, aka believing in Jesus), then this world would be apparently different. Problem is we all can't. And cause dysfunction and chaos for ourselves and others. To know Him is to have ourselves revealed. Reveal how we destroy ourselves and others, to be refined out of us continually this life. To replace our hearts with our clouded desires. To go towards Jesus (the person that created everything).

Mallz wrote: Hmm. We all disregard the truth on a daily basis, bro. What things do you do to yourself that aren't the healthiest? Things you engage in that aren't for building yourself or others up? I'm glad if you realized THE Truth (Jesus), it would be inconceivable to reject Him. That's unfortunately not the same with other creatures.

We disregard truth on a daily basis? Huh? Healthiness =/= truth
Not the same with other creatures? Creatures? Dafuq?

Truth is righteous living. Jesus is the Way to righteousness. Righteousness brings life, rebellion brings destruction.
Creatures as in spiritual creatures along with humans (demons).

Ah... I feel this is going nowhere...

My bad

B. W. wrote:
Only God can save you. So are you actually demanding God save you according to your terms or not?

Of course not. How do I know "Jesus is the terms"?

B. W. wrote:So what is your answer Ice?

My answer? My answer is that I hope I won't be obliged to meet certain people wherever I end up.

Oh and I prefer the light, yes. Not Jesus, though.
Hail Satan, of course!

It is not right to ask questions and then when answered claim quoting the bible doesn't help.We get our answers from the word of God and we do not care what the world or people's opinions are.We go by God's word to the best of our abilities.But I think I see the problem and it is this the only way we can even begin to understand God or even understand the things of God is by the Holy Spirit.The things of God will not make sense to somebody who does not have the Holy Spirit.So until you have the Holy Spirit the bible will not make sense to a person and even when we have the Holy Spirit it can be hard to understand, but without the Holy Spirit? And we cannot even begin to understand the kingdom of God,we cannot see it much less understand it.This is why Jesus said "Unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" and it is true because once a person is saved by Jesus they are changed and it is like they can finally see,which is why songs like "I saw the light" are written,they are not just making it up.

John 3:3-7

I saw the light
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zndKvAVUHl0