Evidence for God from Science

Hugh, those on this forum for a long time are very familiar with the supportive info - Biblical and scientific/geologic - for a localized/regional flood, as opposed to one that was world-wide:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... flood.html

http://www.reasons.org/articles/explori ... d-part-one

http://www.reasons.org/articles/explori ... s-part-two

http://www.reasons.org/articles/the-waters-of-the-flood

Philip wrote:Hugh, those on this forum for a long time are very familiar with the supportive info - Biblical and scientific/geologic - for a localized/regional flood, as opposed to one that was world-wide:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... flood.html

http://www.reasons.org/articles/explori ... d-part-one

http://www.reasons.org/articles/explori ... s-part-two

http://www.reasons.org/articles/the-waters-of-the-flood

So what is with the whole "ark" and animals two by two?
Does the text clearly say that was the first rainbow?

There's a lot of specifics in directions for building that ark for it to be a simple story. The narrative Could simply read 'a big boat was built that all the people could get into during the flood. So --IF that is simply a 'story' -- then how much of the Rest of the Bible is also, 'just a story'. There are Many people who'd just as soon designate the entire Bible as made up stories -- all of it simply mythology. But mythology has Not proven to be 'life changing' in people's lives. How many people sit down with books of mythology in a meditative way -- memorizing passages to share with others as to how much of a blessing those passages have been for them. And if not memorizing / I don't memorize very easily / but reading / rereading passages that really help them / really digging in with a desire to learn More.

Are we going to base our Christmas / Easter on mythology? No. Those events Did happen. There IS going to be a heaven and /or hell in everyone's future. And Those are 'things' that people Don't Want To Deal with. Just let life end when we die and leave it at That. But God's Word doesn't go that way. So 'we' simply decide to ignore the whole thing. Disregard the entire 'book' and all our problems are solved.

And, you're right -- Why such a Big ark for only a local flood. And people would be able to go elsewhere Instead of everyone drowning. Like when the hurricane hit Mississippi all those years ago. It was originally thought to be heading right up the middle of Texas and we'd have been in line -- People Moved out of the way as fast and far as they could. We had people coming up as far as Austin with their campers to get out of the way.
It mostly Had to be world-wide cause everyone drowned. No Place To Go.

Or a parallel universe? A bit of speculation, there.

There Was a water canapy over the earth at first -- no need for rain. Water came up from under ground -- that's why when the rain Did come -- it turned the earth pretty much inside out. Apparently there was a Lot of water underground.
The world of fossils come into play. Which has already been talked about -- somewhere if not on this thread.

Crochet: "It mostly Had to be world-wide cause everyone drowned. No Place To Go.

One HUGE problem with asserting that the flood was necessarily world-wide, is the assumption that it went beyond the expanse of humanity (AT THE TIME). To drown all humanity of Noah's day, certainly did not require a world-wide flood!

hughfarey wrote:

Philip wrote:Obviously, the words in the original Hebrew could well support a local flood. And Genesis might well be referencing TWO separate creation events: Beginning with MANKIND, and later, at some point, God subsequently began His lineage (of Christ) with the instant creations of Adam and Eve (totally unconnected from the rest of mankind, already created), and iF the flood was local/regional and not the entire globe, then these would explain a lot about how far humanity had spread, and how old civilization, as opposed to the time range tpically speculated for Adam and Eve to have lived.

Really? My Hebrew is not good, but I don't think the words of Genesis can have the literal meaning of a local flood. There is verse after verse about destroying every living thing on the face of the earth. Genesis 6:17 "And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die." Genesis 7:21-23 "And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth ..." Can the Hebrew really be translated literally - or must we suppose that every living thing on the earth just happened to be gathered where the local flood was to take place, so that they could all be destroyed?

Hugh,

Try reading what you wrote again. This time, everywhere it says "earth", replace that with "land".

crochet1949 wrote:There's a lot of specifics in directions for building that ark for it to be a simple story. The narrative Could simply read 'a big boat was built that all the people could get into during the flood. So --IF that is simply a 'story' -- then how much of the Rest of the Bible is also, 'just a story'. There are Many people who'd just as soon designate the entire Bible as made up stories -- all of it simply mythology. But mythology has Not proven to be 'life changing' in people's lives. How many people sit down with books of mythology in a meditative way -- memorizing passages to share with others as to how much of a blessing those passages have been for them. And if not memorizing / I don't memorize very easily / but reading / rereading passages that really help them / really digging in with a desire to learn More.

Are we going to base our Christmas / Easter on mythology? No. Those events Did happen. There IS going to be a heaven and /or hell in everyone's future. And Those are 'things' that people Don't Want To Deal with. Just let life end when we die and leave it at That. But God's Word doesn't go that way. So 'we' simply decide to ignore the whole thing. Disregard the entire 'book' and all our problems are solved.

And, you're right -- Why such a Big ark for only a local flood. And people would be able to go elsewhere Instead of everyone drowning. Like when the hurricane hit Mississippi all those years ago. It was originally thought to be heading right up the middle of Texas and we'd have been in line -- People Moved out of the way as fast and far as they could. We had people coming up as far as Austin with their campers to get out of the way.
It mostly Had to be world-wide cause everyone drowned. No Place To Go.

Or a parallel universe? A bit of speculation, there.

There Was a water canapy over the earth at first -- no need for rain. Water came up from under ground -- that's why when the rain Did come -- it turned the earth pretty much inside out. Apparently there was a Lot of water underground.
The world of fossils come into play. Which has already been talked about -- somewhere if not on this thread.

Crochet,

You might want to reevaluate your water canopy theory. I think pretty much all young earth scientists have given up on the water canopy theory.

It's just not something they believe anymore.

You can still hold to scripture literally, if that's what you're worried about, without tossing aside common sense.

Young Earth creationism is going the way of Geocentrism. There's just too much that we've found out that goes against a 10,000 year old earth.

Remember, the same God who wrote scripture, created the earth and the rest of the universe. When scripture and what we see in creation are interpreted properly, there will be no contradictions. Our contradictions come from mistakes in interpreting scripture, or the evidence in nature, or both.

Philip wrote:

Crochet: "It mostly Had to be world-wide cause everyone drowned. No Place To Go.

One HUGE problem with asserting that the flood was necessarily world-wide, is the assumption that it went beyond the expanse of humanity (AT THE TIME). To drown all humanity of Noah's day, certainly did not require a world-wide flood!

In "Noah's" day, some 4000 years ago, there had been people throughout Asia
for well over a hundred thousand years, 50K in Australia, and 10 to 20 in the Americas.

Audie wrote:

Philip wrote:

Crochet: "It mostly Had to be world-wide cause everyone drowned. No Place To Go.

One HUGE problem with asserting that the flood was necessarily world-wide, is the assumption that it went beyond the expanse of humanity (AT THE TIME). To drown all humanity of Noah's day, certainly did not require a world-wide flood!

In "Noah's" day, some 4000 years ago, there had been people throughout Asia
for well over a hundred thousand years, 50K in Australia, and 10 to 20 in the Americas.

Audie,

Where'd you get the idea that Noah's day was 4000 years ago?

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

Philip wrote:

Crochet: "It mostly Had to be world-wide cause everyone drowned. No Place To Go.

One HUGE problem with asserting that the flood was necessarily world-wide, is the assumption that it went beyond the expanse of humanity (AT THE TIME). To drown all humanity of Noah's day, certainly did not require a world-wide flood!

In "Noah's" day, some 4000 years ago, there had been people throughout Asia
for well over a hundred thousand years, 50K in Australia, and 10 to 20 in the Americas.

Audie,

Where'd you get the idea that Noah's day was 4000 years ago?

Not that your q is on topic, which has to do with people being found all over the world at any bible based date one might come up with.

Not that there was a noah or a day for him, but if 4k is off, what date to you claim for the non person and his non event?

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

Philip wrote:

Crochet: "It mostly Had to be world-wide cause everyone drowned. No Place To Go.

One HUGE problem with asserting that the flood was necessarily world-wide, is the assumption that it went beyond the expanse of humanity (AT THE TIME). To drown all humanity of Noah's day, certainly did not require a world-wide flood!

In "Noah's" day, some 4000 years ago, there had been people throughout Asia
for well over a hundred thousand years, 50K in Australia, and 10 to 20 in the Americas.

Audie,

Where'd you get the idea that Noah's day was 4000 years ago?

Not that your q is on topic, which has to do with people being found all over the world at any bible based date one might come up with.

Not that there was a noah or a day for him, but if 4k is off, what date to you claim for the non person and his non event?

Audie,

You made the claim that Noah's day was 4000 years ago. I just want to know where you get that from.

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

Philip wrote:
One HUGE problem with asserting that the flood was necessarily world-wide, is the assumption that it went beyond the expanse of humanity (AT THE TIME). To drown all humanity of Noah's day, certainly did not require a world-wide flood!

In "Noah's" day, some 4000 years ago, there had been people throughout Asia
for well over a hundred thousand years, 50K in Australia, and 10 to 20 in the Americas.

Audie,

Where'd you get the idea that Noah's day was 4000 years ago?

Not that your q is on topic, which has to do with people being found all over the world at any bible based date one might come up with.

Not that there was a noah or a day for him, but if 4k is off, what date to you claim for the non person and his non event?

Audie,

You made the claim that Noah's day was 4000 years ago. I just want to know where you get that from.

Various places, couldnt say specifically. Does it somehow matter?

Genesis 6:17 "And behold, I, Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die"
That sounds very specific.
Chapter 7: 18 "The waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed 15 cubits upward, and the mountains were covered."
That sounds a bit 'world-wide' doesn't it? How high is 15 cubits? Mountains being Covered with water.

I Will look up 'water canopy' -- find out where I got that from.

Audie
Yes, it Does matter where you got your information about the 4,000 years. Just like Your info about the ice cap 100,000 yrs old matters.

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:
In "Noah's" day, some 4000 years ago, there had been people throughout Asia
for well over a hundred thousand years, 50K in Australia, and 10 to 20 in the Americas.

Audie,

Where'd you get the idea that Noah's day was 4000 years ago?

Not that your q is on topic, which has to do with people being found all over the world at any bible based date one might come up with.

Not that there was a noah or a day for him, but if 4k is off, what date to you claim for the non person and his non event?

Audie,

You made the claim that Noah's day was 4000 years ago. I just want to know where you get that from.

Various places, couldnt say specifically. Does it somehow matter?

It only matters if you want to have an honest conversation about the topic. If you just want to throw random assertions about, then make straw man arguments from those assertions, and then claim you've disproven the bible, then no, it really doesn't matter. It would kinda be like if I said "If we evolved from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys? Hah evolution is false!!!"

Genesis 1:6?