Evidence for God from Science

->PaulSacramento :
“You guys are being played and we all have seen this pattern over and over.
I suggest to not feed the troll.

You can always tell when the person states that HE is open minded and everyone that believes suffers from "cognitive dissonance" or they don't have an open mind.
Ignoring the fact that many believers WERE atheists and come to faith via reasoning and rational.
So much easier to be on that high pulpit when we believe we are smarter than believers...”

If you were a honest, wise and intelligent person and not so insecure about your intelligence and religion you would have brought contra- arguments to my arguments. By just keeping on ranting and changing the subject you have proven my point about cognitive dissonance.

-> crochet1949 :
“Another thought -- about the children being 'taken' in the flood. As children they were innocent. Growing up with wicked adults, that was bound to change. So God chose to take them to be With Him Before they were able to become evil adults. “

"9 This is the account of Noah and his family. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God.10 Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth. 11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways." (Genesis 6:9)

Are you deliberately ignoring what i said and demonstrated or are you not understanding ?
God said that all people were corrupt except Noah and his family who were righteous .So these leads to the fact they were saved only because they were righteous in the eyes of God. There only two possible cases:
1.Small children weren't saved because they weren't righteous, but these goes in contradiction with what later the bible says about small children.
2.Small children are righteous in the eyes of God like Noah so because this was the criteria by which one was saved or not they should have been saved, but we see that is not the case.

The statements : "Small children are righteous " and "God chose to saved only the righteous people during the flood, but at least one small children died in the flood" are logically impossible to be true at the same time.

Observation :
1.Both Noah and the small children if they died both would have gone to Heaven.
2.God being all powerful could have teleported the children to the ark and take care of them like he did with the animals.

“And hell is Not Meant for people. It IS meant for satan, false prophet and the beast as was shared previously. Rev. 20:10-- so --let's Not blame God for sending any people to hell. It IS our personal refusal to accept His way to stay Out of hell. Because the price to pay for our sins is eternal hell. We don't get to sin and miss out on the negative consequences -- as has already been shared.”

If God is all powerful, omniscient that means God knew from before he created our world that the consequences of his actions would lead to the physical and psychological torment and torture of billions of people in hell for eternity , yet he chose to go on with the creation .
So God is responsible for all the billions of people ending up in hell for all eternity .
Again I ask how is then God all loving?

-->Nessa:”The bible says if you break one commandmant you have broken them all - James 2:10 - and if you have hated your brother you have already murdered him in your heart. If you have lusted after someone you have also already committed adultery in your heart.”

This in my opinion is not just, to be accused of something you might do or because you are thinking about it and be punished severely for it.

It’s like accusing people of murder and putting them in jail because there are capable of murder and might kill someone in the future or because are thinking about it.

Also it is not moral and just because of one sin and to be guilty of all sin.
This leads to a rather unsettling conclusion .By just lying your guilty of murder, rape or theft.

So I ask how is this showing God justice is perfect or at least fair ?

alexXcJRO wrote:->PaulSacramento :
“You guys are being played and we all have seen this pattern over and over.
I suggest to not feed the troll.

You can always tell when the person states that HE is open minded and everyone that believes suffers from "cognitive dissonance" or they don't have an open mind.
Ignoring the fact that many believers WERE atheists and come to faith via reasoning and rational.
So much easier to be on that high pulpit when we believe we are smarter than believers...”

If you were a honest, wise and intelligent person and not so insecure about your intelligence and religion you would have brought contra- arguments to my arguments. By just keeping on ranting and changing the subject you have proven my point about cognitive dissonance.

-> crochet1949 :
“Another thought -- about the children being 'taken' in the flood. As children they were innocent. Growing up with wicked adults, that was bound to change. So God chose to take them to be With Him Before they were able to become evil adults. “

"9 This is the account of Noah and his family. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God.10 Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth. 11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways." (Genesis 6:9)

Are you deliberately ignoring what i said and demonstrated or are you not understanding ?
God said that all people were corrupt except Noah and his family who were righteous .So these leads to the fact they were saved only because they were righteous in the eyes of God. There only two possible cases:
1.Small children weren't saved because they weren't righteous, but these goes in contradiction with what later the bible says about small children.
2.Small children are righteous in the eyes of God like Noah so because this was the criteria by which one was saved or not they should have been saved, but we see that is not the case.

The statements : "Small children are righteous " and "God chose to saved only the righteous people during the flood, but at least one small children died in the flood" are logically impossible to be true at the same time.

Observation :
1.Both Noah and the small children if they died both would have gone to Heaven.
2.God being all powerful could have teleported the children to the ark and take care of them like he did with the animals.

“And hell is Not Meant for people. It IS meant for satan, false prophet and the beast as was shared previously. Rev. 20:10-- so --let's Not blame God for sending any people to hell. It IS our personal refusal to accept His way to stay Out of hell. Because the price to pay for our sins is eternal hell. We don't get to sin and miss out on the negative consequences -- as has already been shared.”

If God is all powerful, omniscient that means God knew from before he created our world that the consequences of his actions would lead to the physical and psychological torment and torture of billions of people in hell for eternity , yet he chose to go on with the creation .
So God is responsible for all the billions of people ending up in hell for all eternity .
Again I ask how is then God all loving?

-->Nessa:”The bible says if you break one commandmant you have broken them all - James 2:10 - and if you have hated your brother you have already murdered him in your heart. If you have lusted after someone you have also already committed adultery in your heart.”

This in my opinion is not just, to be accused of something you might do or because you are thinking about it and be punished severely for it.

It’s like accusing people of murder and putting them in jail because there are capable of murder and might kill someone in the future or because are thinking about it.

Also it is not moral and just because of one sin and to be guilty of all sin.
This leads to a rather unsettling conclusion .By just lying your guilty of murder, rape or theft.

So I ask how is this showing God justice is perfect or at least fair ?

It is not logical for atheists to be concerned with justice because all evil people get away with evil if atheism is true. You cannot borrow from the Christian world view in order to bash God. The fact is that no sin will go unpunished by God,unless that sin is washed away by the blood of Jesus. You cannot be concerned with what is fair or not being an atheist because we just die and that's it.

The reason why God drowned little children in the flood is because fallen angels had bare children with human women and these little children were not human like God had created,they were half-breeds.Satan was trying to contaminate the human blood line to prevent the birth of Jesus.

Genesis 3:15 the very first prophecy of the coming of Jesus.

"It is not logical for atheists to be concerned with justice because all evil people get away with evil if atheism is true. You cannot borrow from the Christian world view in order to bash God. The fact is that no sin will go unpunished by God,unless that sin is washed away by the blood of Jesus. You cannot be concerned with what is fair or not being an atheist because we just die and that's it."

Why are assuming i am an atheist, i never said i was .I just don't believe in the God of the bible.
I believe in a God that is diferent from the one of the bible ,one that is truly all loving,just,merciful.
A God that won't pusnish for eternity good people like Gandi.

"The reason why God drowned little children in the flood is because fallen angels had bare children with human women and these little children were not human like God had created,they were half-breeds.Satan was trying to contaminate the human blood line to prevent the birth of Jesus."

But what about children born from both line of descendants of Adam and Cain.Lamech the father of Noah had multiple sons and daugthers as its said in the Genesis 5:30.So its logical he had also grandchildren and grand -grandchildren.So there was children born that were human.God could have just killed the non-humans and the human blood lines would have remain clean.Why destroy the earth?Couldn't the fallen angels sleep with women again after the flood ?
"28 When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son. 29 He named him Noah[c] and said, “He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the Lord has cursed.” 30 After Noah was born, Lamech lived 595 years and had other sons and daughters. 31 Altogether, Lamech lived a total of 777 years, and then he died."(Genesis 5:28-31)

alexXcJRO wrote:"It is not logical for atheists to be concerned with justice because all evil people get away with evil if atheism is true. You cannot borrow from the Christian world view in order to bash God. The fact is that no sin will go unpunished by God,unless that sin is washed away by the blood of Jesus. You cannot be concerned with what is fair or not being an atheist because we just die and that's it."

Why are assuming i am an atheist, i never said i was .I just don't believe in the God of the bible.
I believe in a God that is diferent from the one of the bible ,one that is truly all loving,just,merciful.
A God that won't pusnish for eternity good people like Gandi.

"The reason why God drowned little children in the flood is because fallen angels had bare children with human women and these little children were not human like God had created,they were half-breeds.Satan was trying to contaminate the human blood line to prevent the birth of Jesus."

But what about children born from both line of descendants of Adam and Cain.Lamech the father of Noah had multiple sons and daugthers as its said in the Genesis 5:30.So its logical he had also grandchildren and grand -grandchildren.So there was children born that were human.God could have just killed the non-humans and the human blood lines would have remain clean.Why destroy the earth?Couldn't the fallen angels sleep with women again after the flood ?
"28 When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son. 29 He named him Noah[c] and said, “He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the Lord has cursed.” 30 After Noah was born, Lamech lived 595 years and had other sons and daughters. 31 Altogether, Lamech lived a total of 777 years, and then he died."(Genesis 5:28-31)

Because you sound like an atheist.The bible says noone is good except Jesus and he was God in human flesh.God is the judge.There were giants after the flood too.Remember David and Goliath?Also the earth was not destroyed in Noah's flood.It was not the purpose of Noah's flood to destroy the earth,it was to destroy man that had been corrupted.

-->abelcainsbrother:
"The reason why God drowned little children in the flood is because fallen angels had bare children with human women and these little children were not human like God had created,they were half-breeds.Satan was trying to contaminate the human blood line to prevent the birth of Jesus."
"Because you sound like an atheist.The bible says noone is good except Jesus and he was God in human flesh.God is the judge.There were giants after the flood too.Remember David and Goliath?Also the earth was not destroyed in Noah's flood.It was not the purpose of Noah's flood to destroy the earth,it was to destroy man that had been corrupted."


Let's establish some facts:
1.Non-human children = were a result of fallen angels breeding with women.
2.Non-human small children = were not righteous in the eyes of God.
3.Human's small children(from the lines of Adam and Cain,ex: grand grandchildren of Noah's father Lamech ) = were righteous in the eyes of God.
4.Noah and his family = were righteous in the eyes of God.
5.The rest of the humans = were not righteous in the eyes of God.
6.God killed all that were not righteous and saved only the righteous.
All statements 1-6 are considered true in the bible.But this is logically impossible for all to be true because statement 3 goes in contradiction with 5 and 6.

Conclusion : the story of Noah the way its presented it is not logically possible.

Golith was 6 cubits and span(~2.81m) . He was not a giant just a very tall man, just a bit bigger then Robert Pershing Wadlow who was 2.72m. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wadlow )

"4 And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span."(1 Samuel 17:4 King James Version (KJV))

Pearls and swine...

PaulSacramento wrote:Pearls and swine...

Mmmmmm....bacon!

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Pearls and swine...

Mmmmmm....bacon!

Crispy.....

What do we do when someone comes here, saying they want to ask questions to understand, but when they get answers to their questions, they just argue more against the answers that they really have no intention of understanding?

Um....

persist, imho.

Sometimes through arguing answers are found, they just might not be to the original questions. I dont think this thread is about trolling, I think there is a genuine interest there, and theres nothing wrong with challenging ideas.

The stuff about Noah and Jonah, for example sometimes seems too fantastical to be real and literal but then the ressurection isnt for me.

Sorry, going off on a tangent.

Storyteller wrote:Um....

persist, imho.

Sometimes through arguing answers are found, they just might not be to the original questions. I dont think this thread is about trolling, I think there is a genuine interest there, and theres nothing wrong with challenging ideas.

The stuff about Noah and Jonah, for example sometimes seems too fantastical to be real and literal but then the ressurection isnt for me.

Sorry, going off on a tangent.

Christians and fairy "tails", go together like peanut butter and jelly.

You Christians are all a bunch of God Of the gaps fruitcakes.

Seriously though..

Not read Noah or Jonah as an adult, as a believer but from memory, even then I struggled with those. Are they reallyreal? Especially Jonah. But then I believe in the ressurection so why do I struggle?

alexXcJRO wrote:-->abelcainsbrother:
"The reason why God drowned little children in the flood is because fallen angels had bare children with human women and these little children were not human like God had created,they were half-breeds.Satan was trying to contaminate the human blood line to prevent the birth of Jesus."
"Because you sound like an atheist.The bible says noone is good except Jesus and he was God in human flesh.God is the judge.There were giants after the flood too.Remember David and Goliath?Also the earth was not destroyed in Noah's flood.It was not the purpose of Noah's flood to destroy the earth,it was to destroy man that had been corrupted."


Let's establish some facts:
1.Non-human children = were a result of fallen angels breeding with women.
2.Non-human small children = were not righteous in the eyes of God.
3.Human's small children(from the lines of Adam and Cain,ex: grand grandchildren of Noah's father Lamech ) = were righteous in the eyes of God.
4.Noah and his family = were righteous in the eyes of God.
5.The rest of the humans = were not righteous in the eyes of God.
6.God killed all that were not righteous and saved only the righteous.
All statements 1-6 are considered true in the bible.But this is logically impossible for all to be true because statement 3 goes in contradiction with 5 and 6.

Conclusion : the story of Noah the way its presented it is not logically possible.

Golith was 6 cubits and span(~2.81m) . He was not a giant just a very tall man, just a bit bigger then Robert Pershing Wadlow who was 2.72m. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wadlow )

"4 And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span."(1 Samuel 17:4 King James Version (KJV))

You must think our God is weak or something. You really cannot believe that God almighty could flood the earth if he wanted to? Perhaps your god is weak but our God is not. Our God can speak and it happens.You're choosing to ignore and interpret it wrong. What would make you think God cannot pour out judgment on HIS creation if he chose to?

As for the little children dying in the flood -- they went to be with Jesus for eternity. Because a person needs to be able to understand their sin and their need for God's salvation and Want it / ask for God's salvation and thank Him for it. Some children Are able to understand that , but mostly the really small kids Can't and So -- when they died in that flood - they were with Jesus Immediately.

You've said you don't believe in the God of the Bible, but another 'god'. What 'god' are You believing in? And what is That source of information? Just curious as to where you get human vs non-human children. Noah's children were grown men -- not small children. There were No small children saved in the ark.
There Is speculation about who the sons of God were who mated with women on earth. Mostly that they were fallen angels who came to earth and mated with women -- and their children were known as old men, men of reknown. There were giants on the earth at that time. The people were very wicked in God's eyes to he decided to destroy mankind with the flood.
God's Word also says that by the time that Noah and his family were directed to build the ark -- they were the Only righteous people on earth. No people from any other line of people were righteous -- Adam and Methuselah and some others had already lived 930 and 960 years and died. That was before Noah.
Goliath was said to be a giant.

Storyteller
We struggle with those things that are outside our Normal everyday life experiences. Jonah and the big fish episode. Could it Really have happened. Yes, because in the New Testament it says that just as Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days, so the Son of God will be in the earth for three days until His resurrection.