Evidence for God from Science

I'm not sure any Christian here is saying that it's good to get drunk.

Re: wedding... it says that they usually saved the bad wine until the end.. but this time someone exclaimed it was saved til last.. why do you think that is?

Nessa wrote:I'm not sure any Christian here is saying that it's good to get drunk.

Re: wedding... it says that they usually saved the bad wine until the end.. but this time someone exclaimed it was saved til last.. why do you think that is?

Here's the verse you're referring to:
John 2:10

10 and *said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”

If you're asking why the wine was referred to as "the best", I'd say it's because when Jesus turned it from water, he made the best wine.

is that what you're asking?

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:I'm not sure any Christian here is saying that it's good to get drunk.

Re: wedding... it says that they usually saved the bad wine until the end.. but this time someone exclaimed it was saved til last.. why do you think that is?

Here's the verse you're referring to:
John 2:10

10 and *said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”

If you're asking why the wine was referred to as "the best", I'd say it's because when Jesus turned it from water, he made the best wine.

is that what you're asking?

It was a rhetorical question or was suppose to be.

My point was people obviously got drunk and merry at weddings cos when they were, they wouldnt notice the bad wine being served last... You know like having the urine tasting beer for afterwards kinda thing.. Stout first

Jesus didnt seem to have a problem serving wine knowing all this, tho Im not saying he approved of getting drunk.

Wasnt Jesus referred to by some as a drunkard?

Nessa wrote:Wasnt Jesus referred to by some as a drunkard?

Matthew 11:19
19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.”

Earlier I said that I didn't know if the bible mentioned Jesus drinking. Looks like he did.

People with addictive personalities will become addictive on virtually anything.
Since alcohol is legal, it is the most common addiction.
Remove the alcohol and they will find something else.

As for wine in the OT and NT, we need to remember that water quality was poor and that drinking "everyday" wine ( it was very watered down compared to nowadays) was safer than water.

Look, the reality is that YES, there are some health benefits to alcohol BUT not so much that people MUST drink or even SHOULD drink IF they do NOT have the temperament for it.

I have drank since I was a kid ( growing up in Portugal it wasn't a big deal so kids drank at like 16 or even earlier with their parents - wine a beer, things like that) and I have been drunk ONCE in my life and not even that drunk.
I have also gone years without drinking any alcohol at all.
It is not a big deal one way or another.

Unless you do have an addictive personality and then, it can be a HUGE deal since even the "lightest" of drugs can lead to far worse.

Someone mentioned Marijuana and I can say this:
It is almost 100% like alcohol and by that I mean that if you abuse it, you will have a serious problem.

Completely absurd is the contention that God ordained only FRESH wine - that goes against commons sense, history and knowledge of ancient practices. So, Jesus didn't' approve of wine but chooses that beverage for His first miracle? And is it not this very same beverage in which Scripture indicates people sinfully used to also get drunk? What did they do, drink way to much FRESH wine? How silly.

See here: http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-drink-wine.html

Here, Jesus Himself confirms that He drank wine: Matthew 11: "18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

And so Jesus contrasts that the ultimate teetotaler, John the Baptist, was certainly not better the Himself, who admittedly drank wine. And when Jesus referred to people badmouthing Him about His admitted drinking, they call Him a "drunkard" - how so, if all He was drinking was FRESH wine. What do you think they were serving in those ancient pubs for anyone to use Jesus' drinking to slam Him? "Yeah, that deluded Jesus fellow, he's really known to slam down the grape juice!" Please, that is absurd!

There is a whole host of things that are excellent in moderation and appropriate use, and terribly dangerous if abused. There are many people for whom NO amount of alcohol is good - essentially it creates a reaction in them that it does not in most others (unless imbibed to excess).

IMO,

Agreeing with what PaulS and Philip said, I'd also just add that drinking alcohol is a matter of conscience between the believer and God. Just like eating meat, going to church on Saturday or Sunday, etc.

For me personally, I grew up with a father who was drunk every weekend, which caused serious problems with the family. Which lead me to start drinking at a young age.

I made a promise to myself when my son was born, that he would not grow up in that environment. So I've never had a drink around him, nor do I keep alcohol in the house.

My father's drinking had that much of an influence on me, that I just don't want to take any chances.

Rick: My father's drinking had that much of an influence on me, that I just don't want to take any chances.

Very wise, Rick. And I don't blame you! It isn't a thing to take lightly. I think about it a lot with two young boys coming along. All I know is that I am grateful that my father did not drink - as he had a dangerous temperament for that. But my zero tolerance of alcohol upbringing did not work - likely made it seem like sexy, forbidden fruit. But the awful beers I came to age on were ONLY good for getting drunk - certainly not enjoying a wonderful tasting beverage. Most of the alcoholics I've come across either were into beer or liquor. Don't see too many winos drinking quality wine.

And, obviously, the other issues are that the ancients didn't live in a world of 24/7 slick marketing of the "good life" being so portrayed as so alcohol dependent. Geisler warns that today's alcohol content has a MUCH higher percentage. How true, I don't know. But the moment someone knows they have a problem with it - even a small one of not being able to stop or constant over consumption, they should stay away forever. I never drink or serve alcohol around anyone I know that has a problem or that is offended by it.

There has Always been a debate as to whether Jesus actually drank the wine like everyone else did. And the knowledge that the water was so bad that people normally drank watered down wine makes it more likely that people -- possibly even Jesus Christ did also. But our Assuming that he did just because of some passages that Could be read a certain way , well -- do some people use that as an excuse To ? We Do know that when Jesus came into this world -- He became just like mankind. All the temptations We face, He faced. Yet He did Not sin. He did Not drink to any extent that would be harmful to His intended reason for being here / His ministry. His every intent / action was to glorify His Father.